Besides dirty water what else can cause surging and priming

Brad White_200

http://www.heatinghelp.com/steam_waterlineisbouncing.cfm

Another thought is, could the returns be clogged? Trying to suck the proverbial golf ball through a garden hose and all that.

:)

Stewy_2

I have cleaned and skimmmed

my boiler several times and used boiler cleaner but the water line still bounces 1"-2". Any suggestions? I followed instructions to the T and was very patient. What else could cause this

Dan Monsen

If the near boiler piping is not correct or the piping is under sized it could cause water line problems.

Stewy_2

Its done to manufacture specs

and there is a dropped header. I also just noticed that water is trickling down from the top of the sight glass. How can I check my flame pattern. I use a A 75 80 degree in a Beckett AFG

Stewy_2

Clog retures

How Do I check for clog returns

Brad White_200

At the end

of the return, one hopes, there is a plug or a valve. (When I design a system, I specify a full port ball valve at each end which allows a hose connection for a power-flush.)

It occurred to me that you may have dry returns (returns above the waterline) which are less likely to fill with rust. They may be, but less likely by far.

Stewy_2

My returns go into my hartford loop

Brad White_200

See if

that is flowing too. Is there a drain? You have a plug above it at least.

Stewy_2

there is a ball valve

at the bottom of the hartford loop

Brad White_200

Then Grasshoppa

you must use it

Seriously though, if there is a way to get a valve in the other end of the line (where it begins), you can attempt a hose flush. Not too much pressure as that will back up into your radiators potentially. Just enough to say that a gallon in at a certain rate, comes out at a certain rate.

Prove that and you have no clog.

seabee570

foaming/priming

If water is clean,then it could be priming.Is this a new replacement boiler?Are the pipe sizes leaving the boiler the proper size?Try this.allow boiler to cool,close outlet valve at boiler,start boiler,watch water line,see how long it takes to come up to operating temp/pressure.slowly open outlet valve,turn boiler on,what happens?you could also try shutting off the rad valves on a whole floor,start boiler,and see what happens.if boiler is ok with just heating 1 floor,then crack open 1 radiator valve at a time,see what happens.It could be that you are pulling too much load,causing the priming problems.need nore info on system size,operating pressures,etc....

Stewy_2

Im fairly certain its not to much load

there is only 6 rads for a boiler rated a 340EDR

steveex

Clean out pig tail, clean out gauge glass valve tappings.

Stewy_2

Pigtail and sight glass clean as can be

seabee570

steamer

if this is a new steamer,the newer steamers might not have a enough 'steam space',above the waterline,thus causing problems.What about the firing rate of the boiler?is this gas or oil. if burner has been downfired,or slightly undersized,along with undersized piping at outlet of boiler,it can be problems.if the water is clean,then it known as priming.if the water is dirty,it is foaming.it has to be one,or the other...I tried giving you troubleshooting tips by reducing the load,and watching the waterline.did you try reducing the load?without being there,my tips are easy to try....

seabee570

edr

you have to be sure...start from scratch....what is the edr ratings of the radiators? all rads totaled must not be more than the boiler......how about a heat loss on the building?...lots to consider....I have over 3o years with steam boilers....not trying to sound like an expert,but you expect a simple answer to your problem...why not hire someone to come and look at the system?

Brad White_200

Stewy is getting

a great workout, running up and down the stairs between e-mails.

We can call this "Holohan's 'Buns of Cast Iron' Workout"

Infomercial on HVAC-TV, 11:00 PM....

Stewy_2

Very good workout indeed

I was trying to figure this steam system out thats why I haven't called on a pro yet but I'm getting there. Its very hard for me to admit defeat. My EDR for the total radiator load is 253 (not count the piping) and the boiler is rated at 340. After the boiler warms up the water to the aquastats 180 it takes 7mins to travel 8 feet in cold but insulated main w/2 Gorton #1 vents. All along the waterline bounces in the sight glass. I've skimmed and skimmed, used TSP and Pure Pro Boiler Cleaner that claims to stop priming and surging. No luck!! I'd like to do this myself (with of course all the help I can get from here) but, winter is coming so as a final resort, who knows a good steamer in N.H.

Dan Monsen

I am having the same problem with a couple of Weil Mclain 1088s we just had installed.

I skimmed and skimmed but still had problems with the water line.

Just yesterday I steamed up one, shut it down and isolated it and then let the pressure drop down to zero.

I manually turned on the condensate feed pump and filled the boiler up to the top.

I opened the skim port and let it drain till it stopped. Then I cracked the manual feed just enough to let the water flow out of the boiler slowly. Then I left it running all night in our sump pit.

This did wonders for the water line. It is not perfectly stable but only bounces about 3/4" compared to 4' - 6'" before.

nicholas bonham-carter

skimming methods

why is it that no one has developed some sort of automatic skimming device?
every new boiler installation ,or major repiping consumes at least 3 hours of skimming with wasted hot water and someone needed to watch over the process.
isn't there a better way?--some thing automatic maybe separating the oil into a spin-on filter while we sleep!--nbc

Unknown

I'm in NH

Where in NH is the boiler?

Noel

Stewy_2

Dover, NH

Brad White_201

Oooh

This sounds promising... If Noel is involved, I would sleep better at night.

Steamhead (in transit)

Yes

Noel is one of the best steam men out there. I think they still miss him at Colby-Sawyer.....

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Leo_16

You already spotted the problem

You already spotted the problem, water trickling down from the top of the gauge glass. Skim it again and again.

Leo

GREG LAUER

check this

flame impingement and overfire will cause surging also

Unknown

Thanks, gents

I'm 2 towns north of there. Contact me here, if you like.

http://steamheating.googlepages.com/home

Noel