Asbestos Removal

Bob Bona_4

Angela, like Maddog says, it's just one of those things you get one shot at to get it right or the situation gets way worse. You sound like a sharp cookie.

It drives me nuts with some of the apathy in the trades, and you hit it on the head with the "immortality" thing.

You are already ahead of the average homeowner in terms of involvement )

Angela_2

I am sorry for offending any tradesman on this site by suggesting that asbestos removal is not outside my abilities as an intelligent able bodied human being. I wasn't writing a how-to article. I AM aware of the need for negative air flow and special setups for entering and exiting the area. And before I undertook such a project, I would educate myself even further.

I still maintain that it is not rocket science. True, I don't have the air testing equipment.

I believe that it is not illegal in Rhode Island for me to remove my own asbestos. I could be wrong, but then it would be strange that we are allowed to bring it double bagged to the hazardous waste disposal for free. Removal contractors, as I understand it, have to pay plenty.

I would not recklessly endanger my own life or anyone else's. (Except, I guess, I did BUY the house and moved into it without going through and eliminating all lead paint, asbestos and other hazards promptly.) Several years ago, my contractor at the time set me up with a deal to have each basement cleared of asbestos for $1000 each side. I declined, as it was clear that they didn't know what they were doing at all, they were just balls to the wall young men who still believe in their own immortality. I probably saved us all by not giving them the job.

We don't sweep or vacuum most areas of my basement. That's for the entire 8 years I have been here. There are many 'do not disturb' piles in various corners, where the tradesmen over the years let the pipe fall and lie (or the boiler, as my luck would have it). I walled off the major area of my tenant's basement where 99% of my pipes hang, so that tenants can't access the area. And there are several rooms that I would really like to use, but don't because I can see fallen crumbled asbestos in them.

You do leave me wondering why so many professional oilmen, gasmen, and plumbers proceed into the basement after they get their first glimpse of white. And yet they do. Perhaps they are just used to old houses.

NO TRADESMEN, excepting you, have suggested that I must have all the asbestos in my basement removed, by the way. Most suggest that I leave it on the pipes, or make no comment at all. I know that I need to wrap it to prevent any further deterioration. And yeah, I fully intend to do that wrapping myself.

The estimates I have received so far on the boiler removal include removing the asbestos only from the boiler and near boiler piping before it is removed. Perhaps they will also remove it from the spot of pipe where they put the main vent.

I AM SORRY for offending you, Mitch, Bob and silent others. Please accept my apology. I do appreciate your concern and warnings. Asbestos scares me too.

Angela

Mad Dog_2

I don't think anyone is really offended.......

We just don't want to see you harm yourself, your family and any future vistors to your home. I was trained for and held the license for asbestos abatement in NYC at one time. Most plumbers and boiler guys are downright foolish when it comes to working around it, but that is SLOWLY changing. When I entered the trade in 1986, I was "laid off" of several Union jobsites becuase I refused to remove it. By the mid 90s the gcs were wising up and I no longer had to play the asbestos crusader. Bottom line, when we swap out a boiler and the nearby piping has asbestos on it...friable or not...it DOES get airborne and we all breathe it in. We walk away from jobs when the HO doesn't comply - no argument. Please, Angie, get some bids from legit companies and do this right. Mad Dog

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

There are thing better off not said just as there are things better off left undisturbed.

Asbestos pipe insulation is a perfect example.

Get a garden sprayer, add a couple ounces of Dawn, saturate the stuff, cut the bands, "suit up" reasonably bag well, dispose properly and nobody will ever complain. Why do you think you're allowed to dispose through proper channels at low cost compared those those who have to remove it on a constant basis?

You know what though? That asbestos insulation on your one-pipe steam system served a HIGH purpose. IT MUST BE REPLACED WHERE REMOVED! Appropriate insulation products that can be installed rapidly are FAR from cheap and the "cheap" insulation products will require LOTS of time to install in a proper manner.

If your "sticker shock" was based on QUALITY steam men, I can only say that they gave you a VERY good deal. Buy Dan Holohan's (owner of this site) regarding steam and STUDY.

Unknown

Asbestoes

Here is the RI law on removal:

TITLE 23
Health and Safety
CHAPTER 23-24.5
Asbestos Abatement
SECTION 23-24.5-12


§ 23-24.5-12 Licensure of asbestos contractors. – (a) No person or entity shall undertake an asbestos abatement project or dispose of friable asbestos materials in or from any building or demolition of any portion of a structure containing friable asbestos or asbestiform material unless the director has licensed that person or entity as qualified for those purposes. Any building owner who causes an asbestos abatement project or disposal of friable asbestos materials to be undertaken in violation of either this section or any rules or regulations promulgated pursuant to the authority conferred by this section shall also be subject to the enforcement provisions of this section.

(b) Notwithstanding any other law or regulation, no building permit or demolition permit involving asbestos abatement shall be issued by any municipal or state official unless the application for the permit includes a certified copy of an approved abatement plan and a certified copy of the license of the asbestos contractor who shall undertake the work.

(c) No asbestos abatement projects shall be undertaken unless the contractor involved is licensed by the director and its asbestos abatement plan is approved by the director.

(d) The director shall establish procedures and issue regulations for the licensure of asbestos contractors and their supervisors and for the training of the employers of asbestos employees. The director is authorized to establish procedures and regulations for the licensure of asbestos workers. The director may assess fees for asbestos worker licenses issued in accordance with rules or regulations promulgated pursuant to the authority conferred by this section, provided that those fees are assessed only after procedures in accordance with chapter 35 of title 42 have been followed.

(e) The director shall in establishing licensure criteria for asbestos contractors, consider the following factors:

(1) The contractor's experience,

(2) Financial qualifications to abate asbestos properly,

(3) A company's history of safe and proper abatement,

(4) A history of compliance with department regulations, and

(5) Proof of completion of training programs approved by the director.

(f) Each person licensed by the director shall be issued by the director a photograph identification card containing the license which that person must keep in his or her possession at each work site.

(g) The director may assess fees for asbestos contractor and site supervisory personnel licenses issued in accordance with rules or regulations promulgated pursuant to the authority conferred by this section, provided that such fees are assessed only after procedures in accordance with chapter 35 of title 42 have been followed.

(h) For cause and for violation of the regulations of the director, the director or his or her designee may suspend or revoke a license issued pursuant to this section.

(i) The director shall maintain a public list of licensed contractors and shall annually publish that list in a state newspaper of general circulation.

Bob Bona_4

Thanks

Mike, for dumbing down the process, after more than one pro has expressed the importance of proper abatement..

That really inspires confidence that the average homeowner will decon properly.

The only reason a HO can "dispose" of the waste is that it is a free country, sort of. That, in they can, makes me worry.

Or, are you being sarcastic?

mtfallsmikey

All of those years

Dad, myself, my brother...installed, stripped asbestos without a shred of protection. we had bags of it in the shop, we used it to make bunkers for the little green army men in our play area outside the house. It affected Dad's lungs, jury is still out for my brother and I. This stuff is not to be taken lightly by anyone.

Bob Vennerbeck

RI asbestos regulations

Angela et al

I'm not suggesting you do this yourself, but I'm not telling you not to, either.

As a lifelong Rhode Islander and Providence boy myself, I'm not the least bit suprised to find official sources contradicting each other. After all, this is the state that can't figure out how to word a law that makes prostitution illegal.

The RI Dept of Health site at

http://www.health.ri.gov/environment/occupational/asbestos/homeowners.php

states that 'one and two family residential properties are generally exempted from the Rhode Island Rules and Regulations for Asbestos Control'.

That same site also links to the full text of RI Title 23-24.5 Asbestos Abatement that Tim referenced a portion of.

I'm very curious where your statement that homeowners could bring their material to 'the hazardous waste disposal' comes from - maybe that's why my friends who had their snowman worked on - by a licensed plumbing & heating professional! - had (and still have) a couple of those big black double-bags left in the corner of their basement.

Be safe, be careful, be warm...

Vbob

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Yes, sarcastic--even if I'm not very good at it...

Bob Bona_4

whew!

You had me going:).

Case in point. Today I go to look at a bathroom gut job. GC called yesterday, says we need to re-configure some ducts in the floor. I ask, how old is the house, what kind. He says, mid 50's cape. I ask, any 'bestos you know of? "Nope."

Go there today, the room is gutted, not even subfloor, '50's aluminum 5x5 and 5x2 ductwork, feeding this bath and an adjoining one. One 5x5 riser splitting to two rooms, and no good way to bring to something 2008.

Best part? it WAS wrapped w/ asbestos sheet, at least from the remnants left on the fittings, the rest was peeling off and torn. I'm looking at the plumber as he's showing me where he has to run his waste, and as he is standing by the window in the sunlight, and as he is gesturing, etc., I can see just a shower of airborne dust floating and glistening in the sun rays.

I turned and walked out, washed off my skin as best I could, washed my boots, and shook off the best I could before taking off my shirt and stuffing it in the truck bed. As I start the truck, I can see asbestos sheet chunks in the dumpster, all over.

They had just created an enviromental disaster site. The trail of contamination ran from the room, through the house (which will spread even further once the HO tracks elsewhere, and vacuums), out the driveway and into the dumpster.

I won't be setting foot on that property again, and the GC has been notified.