1960's A/S round boiler question.

Unknown

Presented him with the letter, He understands he's on his own. I haven't touched it yet so he'll have some time to mull it over. The least I can do is put a fireye down there to shut it all down if things go wrong. I wouldn't be doing anything to modify the boiler itself. The problem with a lot of these guys is they think you're just saying things to get their money.

I've had guys say exactly that to me too,"You're just trying to line your pockets with my money." because I was there after 3 months to change the filters in his A/C per the boss' instructions. We THOUGHT we had a service contract with the guy. REALLY pissed me off, that one. That was over 10 years ago but I still hate the SOB and anybody who looks like him (which would include his twin brother). LOL...

Unknown

Controls...

I posted pics of this boiler last season and I went to see it again yesterday. Looks for all the world like a 10 gallon hot water heater. Some of you recognized it and had info based on experience with them. I'm looking for a bit more. The way it was wired the pump ran 24/7/52 for 40+ years. It was hard wired to the power. So I took it off and wired it to a fan relay to allow it to cycle on and off with the t'stat. In the process what I noticed was the only means of controlling the water temp AT ALL was a little klixon type button t'stat in contact with the tank. It serves as BOTH a high limit and a temp control and the unit cycles the gas valve with it. I'm bothered that this is the only thing that prevents the boiler from running wild, overheating and well, you know the rest. If that switch were to weld itself shut, that would be that. I'm feeling like I really want redundancy in the circuit for the obvious safety reasons. Is this the way they were supposed to work or is this unit missing anything? I can't get the guy to change it out. The damn thing has a B valve for cryin' out loud! I also feel like I want to delay the pump like 90 seconds on the off cycle to pull some of the heat off the boiler after the gas shuts down. Any thoughts or additional info out there would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

mtfallsmikey

Yes

As I recollect, that combo limit control was set up at the factory like that. The boilers were small, not enough space to mount any kind of conventional Aquastat....That boiler needs to go...better to see it recycled.

Unknown

Thanks,

I know it does, if only I could convince the Homeowner.

I'll do something like a strap on on the discharge just to add something. I'll use it as a second high limit. I might as well do a fire eye too.

I've been on his @$$ about smoke detectors down there (crawl space no less) but now that I think about it I don't recall seeing any yesterday.

Unknown

I talked him,,,

into letting me put the extra safeties on it. I figure I'll get an T'stat with a remote bulb and mount the bulb as close to the boiler as possible on the discharge side for a secondary hi limit, plus a fireye, plus a delay on break relay for the pump just because. And I'll get on him again for smoke/CO detectors. Best I can do unfortunately. His concern is wanting to sell the house in a couple years and not putting too much more money into it beforehand.

Ted G

Words

"His concern is wanting to sell the house in a couple years and not putting too much more money into it beforehand. "

They always say that, don't they?

Unknown

Pretty much,,,

it's sure not the first time I've heard this.

mtfallsmikey

Remember this while doing an\"Extreme Boiler Makeover\"

Think liability! I did one sort of like that a long time ago, and it backfired on me...lucky I replaced the boiler on my dime, they could have sued.

Unknown

Oh no,,,

he'll has been and will be once again fully informed in writing of what the situation is. I can't force him to change it out but I can't, in good conscience, leave it the way it is either. I told him by email that it is literally a time bomb ticking down in his crawl space. it don't get much clearer than that, eh?

drew_13

CYA

I would put it on the bill and get his signature that he was informend, an e-mail is not going to cut it in court.

Unknown

Oh,,,

it will be.

actually though, in talking around on a different matter concerning emails, the thought is as long as you have a reply confirming that the info was passed along and received by the subject in question that could actually be considered a contract. Still, it will be in plain English on the bill when presented to and signed by the customer.

mtfallsmikey

After the incident I listed

Anytime I serviced any heating equipment , hydronic or otherwise that was ready to do damage, or a life/safety threat, I stopped immediately and informed the HO, wrote it up, and had them sign....On several occasions I had to walk away. As soon as you touch something like that, you are liable. And modifying controls, etc. actually cancels the UL certification! Found out that little tidbit at a NEC code seminar a few years ago....Proceed with caution, my friend!

Unknown

Duly noted,,,

I was unaware of the UL thing. What I do know is that under the scope of my license I am allowed, or deemed to be proficient enough, to make such modifications as I see fit. If I add a second t'stat to my t'stat circuit, put a fire sensor in the 110V circuit I haven't made any modifications to the boiler itself. The modification I did make was to put the pump on a relay instead of leaving it hardwired, which I assumed was done in the field. Putting a TDR on the pump circuit shouldn't violate any restrictions as it too would be external to the factory boiler wiring. Were those things shipped with the pump hardwired like that? I do appreciate your concern!

Unknown

Letter>

If this doesn't get the point across, nothing will:

We, XXXXXXXXX, have been fully informed by Mark that our boiler, because of both it's age and obsolete design, represents a serious fire hazard. It is our sole decision to not replace the unit. Mark will attempt to make the unit safer by adding a fire sensing thermostat into the 110V line voltage to the unit and a secondary open on rise thermostat in the thermostat circuit, sensing tank temperature as best as conditions permit, to prevent excessive tank temperature. We understand that there is no guarantee expressed by Mark that this will fully protect us from cataclysmic failure of the boiler and subsequent injury, loss of life or loss of property. Mark is therefore free of all liabilties that may occur should such an event take place.

Signed and dated:

XXXXXXXX ____________________________________ ___________

XXXXXXXXXX __________________________________ ___________

mtfallsmikey

That's where

I got into trouble...had a bad Aquastat, did not have exact replacement on the truck,installed 2-strap-ons, so in reality I modified the boiler wiring..didn't shut off on high limit, boiler busted..If there would have been a fire, I'm liable. Never did it again.