wisbro questions

Tom Hopkins

I want to take a look. thanks

ozone357

Wisbro fittings

I ordered wisbro online and they said that I can use stainless steel clamps to attach to fittings. Is this true.

Home Depot Employee

If you mean SS pinch clamps approved for PEX yes, SS worm gear clamps, NO

chris_93

crimp fittings

If my memory serves me correctly,, I went to there traing facility a few years ago. They were stopping the crimp fitting line of products. Other brand crimp fittings and rings might work on their pipe, BUT they won't warranty any issues unless you use their brand fittngs, rings and pipe.

Make sure they will still honor any warranty issues. Something you might want to check into.

World Plumber

pex clamps

You went to Wirsbo's web sight? They have been Uponor for well over 5 yrs now. If you want to use crimp fittings you can us Zurn. The tubing is identical it's made on the same machines in the same plant. I'm not familiar with crimp fitting for Uponor our distributors only carry the expansion fittings. The Wirsbo hallmark using those fitings with crimp rings will be fun getting the tubbing on without an expander.

Tom Hopkins

World Plumber

Please show any kind of documentation that Zurn is made by Uponor.

Only Uponor and REHAU are Pex-A, Zurn is pex-b, it's significantly cheaper. Please don't associate zurn with those two outstanding industry leaders. Zurn has a pending Class Action Suit http://www.zurnclassaction.com/ and is in a race to the bottom to provide the cheapest crimp, tubing etc.

When one of those crimp rings pop off don't call REHAU or Uponor, they will tell you to pound salt!

You get what you pay for. It's garbage.

Which system would you trust behind a wall or under the floor? REHAU Everloc, no contest...

World Plumber

The people at Zern told me that it was the same tube. But it certainly doesn't look or feel like it.

World Plumber

The people at Zern told me that it was the same tube. But it certainly doesn't look or feel like it.

Bob Forand

That reminds me

That reminds me of a time when the company that produces the fittings with the solder already in them tld me that they are just like the pro press fittings. Yeah the shape is but that is the ONLY similarity. Saying that Zurn pex is the same as Wirsbo sounds just as cheap as their product.

Not even close to the same league !

Mike Dunn

Don't forget

about Mr. Pex. They too are Pex A.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Home Depot Employee

I think some are confusing the crimp rings with the SS pinch rings.
In fact Wirsbo, prior to the Uponor change as the evil stepmother of Radiant Technologies (RTI) closed them down, absorbed their SS pinch ring into their product line and then later dropped it when it's patent ran out and began to focus on their proprietary and once failing in popularity ProPex swedged collar.

The Odiker (SP?) SS pinch clamp didn’t originate at Zurn; it was RTI, quietly owned by Wirsbo that made it so popular and still proven. After losing big market share to RTI and having difficulty growing in the east Wirsbo chose to pull the plug.

We all trust that same clamp on oil, fuel and hydraulic lines, why should we be concerned about water?

Rick your class action reference was due to fittings not rings and definitely not SS pinch clamps. Perhaps these were foreign cast fittings no different than the threaded fittings or other imports that cause a problem.

Yes Rehau makes an impressive looking fitting but with the two steps and expensive connectors, they can't compete in the Plbg world however make an impressive looking radiant connection. Even the Wirsbo system takes more time than the SS Odiker clamp, and installed right I have never witnessed a failure.

Tom Hopkins

I will reiterate

OK, so Zurn's fitting failures are acceptable?

Zurn is in a race to the bottom. Wowie, we can sell everything cheaper! Cheaper or quality, pick one, you can't have both. You choose...

Rick

Home Depot Employee

Keep in mind, Zurn didn't cast the brass fiitings that failed, barbed fittings have and will be used forever.
Regardless of what system you use, the import fitting is bound to end up in your hands eventually, many times without knowing.

It comes back to price shopping, many distributors will source this type of fitting and toss it into their stock to be competetive. You may think it is a Uponor fitting when in fact it may have come from Sioux Chief or others(not that Sioux Chief is bad)

Wirsbo's tubing failure back when it was sourced and made in India was acceptable? Everyone has problems on occasion.

Rick_83

Some differences between zurn and PEX-A

1. Is sold in Home Depot, Uponor and Rehau are not

2. Pex-A is superior to zurn, let's see you get a kink out of zurn. Zurn = brittle

3. Rehau Pex and fittings are made in the USA

4. Rehau's motto: Pex for professionals

5. Zurn motto: Your customer can buy our crap for the same price as a contractor.

6. Zurn uses imported inferior brass fitting that dissolve.

7. Quality or Pricing, choose one, can't have both

JackR

India???????

Wirsbo/Uponor has never out sourced their tubing.........

Lil-Roc

He could be talking about MLC fittings. Maybe he got Multico (multilayer-layer composite tubing. Then it would be a crimp style.

John_162

Uponor also is being sued

all you uponor lovers there not imune from problems either.

high price low qaulity. at least uponor made more money so they have more money to pay for there crappy fittings.

http://www.audetlaw.com/case.php?id=105

Bronze fittings are the best

JackR

Case without teeth

I'm pretty sure Wirsbo has always recommended the DZ ( De-Zincafied ) or now engineered plastic fitting for plumbing systems. Sounds like that suit is based on installers using the cheaper red brass fittings in areas with poor water quality.

You never win with cheap.

It certainly can't be anywhere near the problem of Zurn since when I google Wirsbo class action info is extremely scarse.

Home Depot Employee

Rick,
I'm not arguing that PEX-A is superior, and given a choice worth the extra money because of its workability.

I believe the discussion was about clamps.

Zurn, represents a decent product and is widely used in the plumbing side, I don't work for or rep either and am not sure why you are so defensive except that you may work at Uponor.

True Rehau now has two extruding PEX manufacturing facilities in the US and like most others, had none 4-5 years ago. Up until the ALA. facility was completed and up and running last year, they were still importing in containers, so what has that got to do with clamps?

Thanks John, for the link, I was about to mention it until I read your post, your right in this litigation happy society, all are not immune. PEX is just taking the hit because it is fairly new and an easy target, coming off all the other plumbing system failures.

Jared, how would you know Wirsbo pror co of Uponor never sourced their tube? I know and have witnessed different.
I'm sure I'm much older also, much more traveled, and have seen 1/2 dozen manufacturing facilities in person.

I did PEX (and rubber) in the early 80's

John_162

If it didn't have teeth they wouldn't be pushing the plastic fittings and the judge wouldn't have allowed the class action suit. Lawyers don't want to spend time on something there's no money in

Bob Forand

Pex A

Pex A isn't just better because of it's workability, but it is becase it is expandable. Wirsbo and Rehau are the only two manufacturers that I know of that have fittings to fit expanded pipe. The inside diameter of a standard crimp fitting is, in my opinion, horrible. Talk about flow restriction. The 3/4 crimp fitting is the same id as 1/2 copper. That is horrible. At least with expandable pipe and fittings you don't have quite the restriction. Check it out sometime.

John_162

OK fallacy check here are the facts.

1. all pex (a,b,c) expanse's and contracts.

2. heating all pex to get a kink out works. but if you look at all pex under a microscope all pex is weakened (why waste time getting a heat gun(manufactures only approved way to unkink) when a fitting is so cheap and faster

3. Equivalent fitting length for uponor fitting is 3.7 feet per 1/2 fitting. for a crimp or press it is 5 ft. so if you have 3 fittings on a 100ft run the developed length
would be 111.1 ft opposed to 115ft for crimp or press. not a noticeable difference

4. expanding for fittings takes alot longer than Viega press

5. cold weather installs of uponor(by there manual) you have to wait 24 hours to pressurize. press and crimp can be immediately pressurize.


All of the above facts comes from Uponors manuals and Viega's. the difference(or non difference) in pex came from the design guide printed from the plastic pipe institute.

Home Depot Employee

All good points John

When you compare PEX systems with copper that was/is used, for plumbing, PEX tends to have less fittings no retrictive S&W valves and lower friction in the pipe, basically a wash that has worked for years without the big concern for drop.

Granted, I wouldn't advise S&W's on hydronics, but too many people confuse open systems with closed systems and besides, we design on 3GPM max don't we?

I have seen Uponors clamp system fail, perhaps too cold out, pressurized to quickly, pulled on or shifted before tightening, whatever. I have also seen SS crimps fail due to improper cut, lack of insertion, cocked crimp band, excessive pressure or force causing deflection on tubing, however, properly done, turn the water on and walk away.

On a labor standpoint, I bet you could do 15-20 connections for evry one Reahau or Wirsbo connection, something to be considered.

Lastly, heating professionals tend to take more pride and wish to exert more showmanship in their final product, thus the better looking connections are attractive to them regardless of costs or labor.

Rick_81

REHAU Everloc

Has not had one failure due to manufacturing defects. Not one...

World Plumber

mix and match

If your puting something together in the back yard where there is no concern of failure go ahead. If your doing your home where there is the potental of great dollar loss use the recomended fittings. Upnor/wirsbo and REHAU have cirtifications that allow the installer to give an additonal 20 yrs of warrenty. Do the others offer that? You better bet it's a better quality if they offer up to 25 year warrenty. The others even though they clain to be the same are not. (I stand corrected for not reserching what Zern told me about theirs.) There are only 2 cross hatched pex tubes. It's like buying the Yugo or a Volvo. Which do you think will last longer?

Home Depot Employee

Yes there is others World Plumber, ComfortPro Systems USA, for one, which offers PEX A & C and uses Stainless Steel pinch clamps (Odiker type) also offers a 25 year system warranty. ComfortPro systems is a US spin-off of Heatlink, which has been around along time in the mid-west.

They use A&C with clamps and have no issues.

So they offer 10 years on their pipe, and up to 25 years when you use their system.

http://www.comfortprosystems.com/pdf/ComfortPro pipe warranty.pdf

Guess what Rick, no failures either and an approx 35% less install cost.

John_162

How do you know? Do you work in there QC Dept or should it be. I never had a failure

Home Depot Employee

From Zurn site

World Plumber, most if not all offer 25 years....
Do your homework-

Zurn PEX non-barrier and barrier cross-linked polyethylene
tubing (PEX) and Qick/Sert® insert fittings, when installed as a system with our Zurn PEX non-barrier and barrier crosslinked polyethylene tubing (PEX), for a period of twenty-five (25) years

What is cross hatched?