Home Owner/DIY Dropped Header Install Pics Inside

Unknown

The boiler looks like it was piped by someone in the trade for decades . You did the Dead Men proud !

Home owner in need

Home Owner/DIY Dropped Header Pics Inside

Ok, so after a very failed new gas fired boiler install by my plumber last year (I posted pics last year and over 15 replies everyone agreed there was virtually nothing right), I decided to tackle this re-piping project myself.

First off thanks to Dan for the amazing knowledge in his books, dead men's secrets and all of your help. No way I could have done it without you.

As an FYI, I was on the phone with several Weil Mclain engineers making sure my drawings of proposed piping would be acceptable. In fact I gave 3 possible piping scenarios, and the one you see in photo's was their unanimous choice for optimum effeciency.

Now don't beat me up too bad....lots of sweat, busted knuckles and a forehead burn due to touching a hot steam pipe later, see the photo's for results. FYI, my sauder on the condensate return entering boiler is not as bad as it looks....I spilled hot sauder and it spattered. This is on a WM PEG45 and will be fully insulated soon.

I TSP'd the boiler since only been installed for a year(Making sure it never went into the mains and staying in the boiler), drained and flushed 2x, then fired her up and spent 20 mins skimming. Water is still slighly dirty, so will have to try cleaning it again soon. I did not add any chemicals, ran great, no leaks and all radiators got hot evenly, no hissing vents and no banging in any pipes......ahhhhh finally after many lousy sleeping night last winter.

Only item I noticed is the right side riser gets hot faster than the left (But both get same temp eventually). Is that an issue or just part of the engineering design/way it was built? Let me know what you think and try not to beat me up too badly, I'm no plumber that's for sure.....thanks

Home owner in need

skim port and traps safe?

I installed the skim port and all 3 elbows in the return and hartford loop with ball valves. After the install I got to thinking, is that unsafe. At temp someone/kid couldeasily pull the lever and get burned badly. Should a put on a screw on cap at the ends of all of the bal valves for saftey's sake? Thanks

bob young

nice job

Put pipe plugs in open valve ports. job looks good. have seen plumbers do much worse

Unknown

yup,

I put screw caps on everything. One of the pics makes it look like maybe your relief valve riser terminates less than a 1/2" from the floor. I'd trim that back a bit so if it does go it won't tend to spew the water as forcefully across the floor. Code is 6". Another tip is pipe dope. When I was being taught to pipe my "mentor" said the quickest way to tell if a guy knows what he's doing is by the amount of pipe dope he uses. Pipe dope should be applied SPARINGLY on the first three threads of the fitting. Just a thin coat. Contrary to popular belief pipe dope is a lubricant, NOT a sealant. It purpose is to lube the joint so that you can sock it up tight enough to get a metal to metal seal. The metal is what actually does the sealing, not the pipe dope. This job looks pretty good, the next one will look better because now you understand dope.

After another look: YES! Any valve or whatever that can release water or steam to the atmosphere unintentionally should be capped in some manner. This does NOT include relief valves! I have to wonder if boiler drain valves (look like hose bibs) would have been a better choice than the ball valves you used. Then you could use hose caps to cover them. One other thing is your gas drip leg should be 6" although it looks like you didn't have the room for it.

If that backflow preventer has a 1/2" threaded fitting on the opposite side, it also needs to be piped to 6" from the floor.

Unknown

You could...

elbow off the bottom of the ball valves and attach a hose connection there. They have caps for the hose connections.

And what happened to the picture of the results from that burn? :P

Larry C_13

Asbestos?

If that is exposed friable asbestos in the upper right of photo 9594, have it removed by an licensed abaitment contractor. Or, encapsulate it with paint soaked cloth.

Larry C

Peter Zelchenko

Encapsulating the white stuff

Larry, any special paint/cloth in particular? Ends of the pipes will obviously see high heat.

Steamhead (in transit)

Aside from what others have already posted

the only thing I could see that doesn't look right is that the equalizer is not plumb, though that could be a result of the camera angle (hey, you did ask us ;-) )

One thing I would have done differently is to make the horizontal portion of the header 2-1/2" or 3", as this would dry out the steam even better. The manual does call for 2-1/2" on the EG-45, and your piping looks like 2". But if it's working for you, it should be fine.

I like the tall risers coming off the boiler. These also help dry out the steam.

How did you size that main vent? It looks a bit small to me.

All in all, it's not bad, ESPECIALLY for your first time. If you ever wanted to switch careers........

"Steamhead"

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Unknown

heyyy,

I saw him first...

bob young

swing [ not benny goodman ]

I was gonna mention the fact that the equalizer was not plumb, Frank , but without a 45 or el , it never will be. some guys are too concerned about excessive pipe schmear than developing proper pipefitting practice. swing joints when executed properly can be a wonderful thing. on the other hand , for an amatuer job , it is pretty much damn perfect

Peter Zelchenko

\"Steamhead Follow up\"

Steamhead, thanks for the reply. During lunch I bought screw in caps for all 4 ball valves for saftey sake including the skim port one too.

1) You are 100% right...equalizer is nof fully plumb. I actually built in a slight pitch so I could get the connected header to drain....guess it was overkill. It won't hurt anything or kill my efficiency right? Just looks bad?

2) Header piping...damn, I read the manual and it seemed to read either one 2 1/2" riser and 2 1/2" header OR two 2" risers and 2" header. Piping is 2".....I hope with the tall risers this compensates for that error on my part....that will drive me nuts. I attached the manual and the pipe sizes are on page 14.

3) Main vent - I replaced it last year with the exact same one that was already there for 20 years. I know bigger is always better.....which one do you reccomend considering the fairly tight quarters next to the support joist?

4) Switching careers: I am in software sales and my coworkers think I am a wack job for tackling this myself....smashed-up hands, burn on my forehead, mumble of completing the job satisfaction. Seriously, I love steam and it is fascinating to me and reading Dan's books are addictive.

Unknown

I just...

called what I saw, I figured others would be in here to pick up more that I didn't catch. And yes, excessive pipe schmear is important because it gets into the system if you use too much.

Larry C_13

Special materials

Cloth: Discarded tee shirts, old sheets, rags etc.

Paint: Discount Latex, free wet paint, whatever you can get.

Remember the paint is going on the outside of the insulation. Use whatever you have availble. The idea is to encapsulate the loose fibers.

Larry (not from OSHA)

Mad Dog_2

Better than ALOT of so-called heating guys.................

and something to be proud of. Really. Mad Dog

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Steamhead (in transit)

Very Nice Job

Well Done, Sir.

I would replace the return ell with a tee so the boiler could be flushed through it in the future.

As I understand it, the mfg. suggested pipe sizes will provide at least 98% "dry" steam. Since your risers are very high and you used both of them, when the mfg calls for only one, it would stand to reason that you have done better than 98%.

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Steamhead (in transit)

That equalizer

will work fine. I was simply responding to your request ;-)

The manual you posted has slightly different specs than the one I have- must be a rather recent change. But you've exceeded the minimum, and it should be OK.

How long are your steam mains, and what pipe size are they? The answer will tell us what main vents you need.

Your co-workers don't know what they're missing.

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Peter Zelchenko

Thanks

Thanks very much for teh nice works....def. mean a lot!

Bob Harper

\"drip leg\"

is actually a 'sediment trap' and must be 3" according to both Nat'l and Int'l gas codes---not 6". It does make a 90 degree turn to the appliance valve with a ground union downstream of a listed shutoff that is within 6 feet so that looks good. I hope you did not put pipe dope or Teflon tape on the seat of those ground unions--they should be metal to metal. Once done, I wipe down all joints of exposed dope and flux. I paint black iron with black paint to inhibit rust and make it look spiffy. I always install brass caps on hose threads to protect the threads from damage and add a layer of protection if the valve fails. Any shots of the venting on the DHW--looks rather large. Otherwise, looks nice!

Diciocco

A question about the copper piping on this job...

I have noticed that a lot of the boilers I see on this site use black iron pipe for the header, etc, but the hartford loop portion will have copper piping. I thought that Dan indicated in one of his books that copper was not good for the boiler-- can anyone clarify?

Unknown

Must be,,,

at LEAST 3". New one on me, I've been putting in 6" "drip legs" for 30+ years. My new Munchie install manual refers to it as a drip leg as well. I recently attended a class where we were told that just because they SAY it's nice dry gas...

bob young

plug or cap

I just happen to know someone that has been using plugs for drips for almost 50 years without incident as of yet. go figure. i personally have never seen anything in any drips except maybe a little cutting oil and that could be avoided by proper work ethic. now if you remove a nipple & cap that has been in place for a hundred years you will get black sediment dust left over from the manufactured gas of long ago. maybe that sediment leg could be overkill because you can bleed the line just as effectively with a plug.

Unknown

Can we,,,

Call it cheap insurance?

John T_3

Boiler fill looks like it is piped in above water level. If it is it will surely cause hammering when it fills. We usually pipe it into the return, at the opposite end from the drain valve so it can be use to flush the return piping.

Just my .02 cents worth.

John T.

Custom Climate Systems, Inc.

Dexter,MI

bob young

schmear

if you do not schmear the seat of the union, you could also have a slight leak. sad but true

Peter Zelchenko

Water inlet

I will check this off to my lack of posished photo skills. Water feed enters the condensate return pipe at about 4" off the ground behind the boiler as far away from the hartford loop as possible. I wanted to give any new feed water a chance to warm up before it entered the boiler in hopes of minimizing the cold water/hot boiler chance of cracking a boiler

Unknown

I,,,

always put a dab or two on the union threads and on the shoulder surface between the female fitting and the nut. This is to lube the union so it will sock tighter and come loose again 20 years from now. I don't normally put any on the mating surfaces. I used to use never-seize but have found dope works just as well. Again, sparingly being the key point.

World Plumber

Drip leg

The drip leg is to catch any sediment or moisture that might get in the main line. To prevent the gas valve from being held open by sedement. I have removed a drip leg with a good 3 inches of water in it. As you said 99 out of 100 will never see anything to catch. It's like your seat belt. You may never need it. But it sure is nice to have it on when it is needed.