Steam What would you do?

Mad Dog_2

Mad Dog

<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=299&Step=30">To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"</A>

J.R. Madden

Steam What would you do?

What would you do if you ran into this. A 70+year old one pipe steam system in a 2 story house. ALL TYPE L COPPER! The distribution system is a loop, with paralell flow for half and counter flow for the other half. The main is feed in both directions. 2"CTS stemming from a 2-1/2" riser. "End of Main" vent is center of loop oposite boiler supply. Return is 1-1/4" CTS dropping straight down beside boiler, expanded to 2" with a swing check in the lower horizontal. Risers are 3/4"CTS taken off the top of supply/return main at 45°. Most have 2" run out rise to vertical and are less than 3' long. All turns are made using long radius ells. Joints are all soldered with soft solder (No idea of composition). There is NO evidence what so ever of 1) leaking joints
2) stress cracking 3) thinning of tubing, 4) corrosion of any sort anywhere in piping system.
All piping had been covered with asbestos insulation from time of installation. The boiler also had asbestos. When the new owner had the asbestos abatement guys come in they also removed the boiler!
Existing connected load is 334.8 EDR. If I am using the tables provided by Burnham correctly I also have 82 sq ft EDR in exposed piping. This I will insulate with 1" high density fiberglass insulation when install is complete. I am contemplating using a vaporstat on the boiler to minimize pressure and to SLIGHTLY reduce operating temperature. There is a fair amount of piping buried in walls. The walls have been reinsulated, new vapor barrier,new sheetrock and finished. The owner assures me that the concealed tubing is in as good shape as the exposed in the basement. He did run the system a couple of times in the early spring when they first bought the place. Tells me it was completely silent and worked 100% OK. He wants a new steam boiler installed. Whada think Steamhead?

Steamhead (in transit)

There was an effort

by copper pipe vendors to expand into the steam market in the 1940s. This may be one of those installations, especially since it once had asbestos insulation. But I'll bet the boiler was piped in black steel, to deal with expansion.

As long as expansion stresses in the main aren't too bad, I'd say leave it as it is. It's not the usual, but if it's lasted this long it should be OK. But do the near-boiler piping in black steel or you'll definitely have problems, especially if you'll need more than one riser to the header. Of course you'll use a Hartford Loop and get rid of that check valve.

There's no need to add the piping to the system EDR if you'll insulate it. This is included in the boiler's Net and Square Feet ratings.

Post some pics if you can!

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mad Dog_2

Well................................

I ain't no steamhead, BUT......as long as the HO is aware that copper is not the best choice of materials here, but short of ripping it all out......you;ll "work" with it...I wouldn't worry about it too much...treat it like any other steam system. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

ScottMP

I agree

But I would let the HO aware that even though the copper shows no sigh of leaking or expansion stress, that it is near the end of its life expectancy due to the stress, erosion and PH of the condensate.

After that give them a great steam boiler with a drop header and properly designed near boiler piping.

Don't under estimate the owner’s needs. Let them know that the system could be converted and remove any possible nuisance calls from maintenance. I give my customers as many options as possible and allow them to tell me what option they find attractive.

Scott

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

J.R. Madden

Thanks guys. I have already cautioned the HO that the materials of the distribution system are at or near the end of their life span. ALL near boiler piping WILL be black iron, and for sure there will be a Hartford loop! I have also thought of installinf a gasketed flanged connection between the existing copper supply and the new black iron header. I would use the same sort of thing for the condensate return.