Mo better T-stat

Metro Man

We love the modulating characteristics of the non-electric Oventrop T-stats for radiant heating w/mod cons. Couple these with a variable speed pump and you have a sweet system. The problem is the bulbs are only 33' in max length and I hear from the local E-man (recently back from the ISH motherland trip w/crew) that this length may become discontinued..... bummer. Something about the fluid going that far and remaining in it's phase change state within the capillary.

We were using Tekmar w/ floor sensors. The wiring was incredible when you get into some big homes. Say 20 zones w/6 wires (plus 2 extra) gets you 160 wires just to the ZVC. Then come off to your zones etc..etc.....

So...... my question to all you Wall-Eyes is where can I get a Mo better way to non-electrically control my zones? Anyone out there using wireless with success and can I get it to modulate a zone valve head like oventrop's? Or a different capillary style controller. Always loved aquastats...

Some comments that I get from homeowners is they don't like the size of the wall stats and wish they came in diff. colors...... I guess it comes down to a true Frank Zappa Zen-ism. "Everything is what I want" ....

Might be wishing for something that isn't made (yet) but I guess if your wishing........


Grass-e-**** in advance.

Metro Man

Unknown

Keep the thermostats hidden, use remote sensors.

You could even have a bank of thermostats in a central closet (or in the mech room) to simplify the wiring (down to 4 per zone, with floor sensors).

Add the internet gateway on a big home and run it all via laptop

I too am bummed if they discontinue the 33 foot cap: the oventrop valves are certainly cool for systems where modern features are not required. 16 feet, minus rise to the wall stat, doesn't leave much wiggle for manifold placement.

Metro Man

KISS

Thanks Rob... yea we have wired this way b4 and works well. Usually make the t-stat board up in the shop w/ ZVC control and away ya go. Keeping it simple and efficient is the way to go.

Guess I've got spoiled w/stats and love not wiring low voltage all over. OD reset and your in business. Those capillary lengths get real short real quick don't they?

BTW- what does the NRT stand for?

Metro Man

bb_11

Danfoss

Has a wall mounted remote sensor for TRVs with a 26' cap tube.

They can be contacted @ 443-512-0266, or www.danfossheating.com

bb

Mark Eatherton

Think outside the box Grass Hopper...

the control valve doesn't HAVE to be at the manifold. If you do a long running supply and return system, the control valve only has to control either the supply or return serving the manifold. The access to the valve could be in the ceiling of a closet in the basement, or where ever. Just make certain you document its location in the permanent on site information package for future reference.

If the cap tube ever needs to be replaced, you will want to have the ability to pull a new one through, and for that purpose, we use to use (retired, remember) some of that 3/4" flexible PVC piping, like they use on hot tubs. At the thermostat end, we used a 1-1/2" PVC street ell. The bell end had a 1-1/2" X 3/4" PVC reducing bushing, and the street end was installed in a 1 X 4 backer with a screw through the wood to keep the street ell part sticking in to the profile of the sheet rock so that the rockers had to accommodate the fitting. Upon finish, you use a shop vac to suck a red wire nut UP the pipe with a masons nylon string attached to the wire nut, then latch on to the cap tube with the masons string and pull it back to the control valve location.

Don't anchor the chase pipe too often, and try and avoid any extremely tight radius turn situations, or situations where another trade "moves" the chase pipe to meet their needs.

I think non electric TRV's are the greatest invention to be applied to hydronic heating systems. As you said, modulating pumps, boilers and emitters working together to deliver the ultimate in human comfort and efficiency.

I have them in Hydronicahh...

ME

Andrew Hagen_2

...or inside a different box

Why not trade the cap tube for a re-routed distribution pipe? Oventrop Unibox

Metro Man

re-tired

Grasshopper.... Surprised your up so early now that you don't have to show up for early morning work..... thought you'd be watching Opra and eating Bon Bons.

We use similar technique except use the blue flex plastic electricians tube. And have "hidden" our valves in walls, ceilings, and closets.

What I want when using mod/valves is the flexibility to put all where I want and with 33' max (that may now turn to 16') these placements are getting tougher.

BTW - how are you enjoying the late season snow?

Metro Man

Metro Man

bulb length

Thanks Andrew,

Had those in my hand but haven't used 'em yet... think the bulb is limited to 6'.

Think that I am asking for something that physically my be improbable to make. A capillary tube going longer than 30' may not be happening. Pulling those that length is always interested.

I have thought of trying out the remote bulbs on the manifold returns to sense temp. (Essentially eliminating the need for a "room" t-stat) Set to 70-80* or so and see how well rooms remain at desired temp. If the room requires more heat (ie; colder outdoor temps) the valve opens for more flow, the boiler is firing at higher temp because of outdoor reset, system is continuously flowing... etc... All happening non-electrically.

We actually set up new construction that way only we open all the zones hardwire pump and install an old aquastat to the return line.... wire to TT connections set it and forget it. Homes stay very comfortable and don't worry about other trades screwing with our stats until we are ready to install.


Metro Man

Simply Rad_5

outch that hurts !

Simply Rad_5

outch that hurts !

Simply Rad_5

outch that hurts !

Simply Rad_5

i guess that really hurts my fingers that can't quite hitting

Simply Rad_5

Cant quite hitting return

I hope that s a rumour about the 33' lenghts. after 3 years we finally have the Ovies down. We have had to move control valves to make 33' work though. 33' is hard enough to make the manifolds work, wow 16' is a big challenge. I love the simplicity and comfort of the Ovies. Now with the Differential pumps the systems are definatly in a zen state of comfort. The latest house we are working on has 30 zones imagine control wiring that one. Direct return piping was hard enuff


Jeffrey

Derheatmeister

Longer Caps..

I was with the E man when we talked to different Manufactures about longer Caps... They did say that 33 feet is about the max they can do but i do not remember the talk of Discontinue by Oventrop

Next time you are in up in Summit County stop by, I've got lots of info some in German some in English i think you will like to see.

Don't forget to bring das gute bier ja! Not Keystone light!

Richard

Josh_10

How about using a Z-Wave wireless thermostat with a Z-Wave wireless radiator valve?

MIke_Jonas

Could I get a link?

There are no stocking Oventrop wholesalers in my area. I got a blank stare today when I asked the rep about info on this apparatus being discussed.

Could one of you in the know Oventrop dudes post a link to the 33 foot cap-tube-thingamabob-t-stat-zone-valve-actuator-all-in-one device that you all speak so highly of?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Derheatmeister

Go WWW.Oventrop.com then go English, then go Products, then go Radiant valves, then thermostats, the check # 1012297. the bodys are on the same site!!

Metro Man

Bier

Sounds like a plan...

Next time I go to one of our projects near you I will give you fair warning.

BTW- I called the US rep for oventrop and should hear the word on the 33' soon. Maybe E-man was experiencing jet lag or just had some bad brew. The quality standards aren't as high there as we have here in the States.

Metro Man

Metro Man

False alarm

Just got email from Mr Oventrop.... not to worry about dropping 33' caps.

Metro Man