First Muchkin...

Unknown

Ok with the flow, I understand. My thought is if I establish a loop with one pump and a bypass that will always give me proper flow and then tap off of that with zone valves, haven't I achieved the flow requirements? The tiny primary loop I'm seeing on the supply house display just doesn't look right to me. The factory said, "As long as you have 5 gpm flow...".

Unknown

Seems ok

Fired up real sweet like, seems like an ok unit. What might I expect to see down the road as the unit ages? What should I look out for? Here's some pics, try to be gentle. Not quite finished in these but it is now.

Behind is a chimney that I did not want to hang from. You'll notice the large gray patch in the brickwork. That area had actually rotted and crumbled out. The chimney LADY did an excellent job reparing it. I also did not want to hang from the rubble wall hence the blocks. The house is circa 1860. I put it up high so I can sit on a bucket to work on it. Saves a lot of back pain.

The 3" PVC device is my idea of a homemade neutralizer. A couple handfuls of marble chips go in the cleanout as needed. The supply house guys were laughing at me because, "None of the other guys are doing it!" but this guy has cast iron soil pipe and I like to avoid as many issues as I can.

Mark_7

munch

You are going to have to pipe in a p/s loop to keep the unit from locking out on high limit.Make the loop the same size as boiler then your zone can be reduced down. Follow piping diagram in manual.

Derheatmeister

Turn the circ

I Think that you may want to turn the circ head by 90 Degrees.

Also have you seen the Isoflanges in your areas? They are not that expensive and save time and make a better looking Install. Heatmeister

Unknown

Why?

Why turn the circ? Yes, I know about the flanges but I'm not all that crazy about them, I think the handles are too tight to the frame and I catch (bang, whatever) my knuckles on them.

And yup, I checked with the mfg on the piping config. As long as I keep 5GPM going through there I'm ok. I'm just circulating one baseboard loop. You'll be happy to know I lovingly read that manual from front to back before I ever started.

Unknown

Well I'll be dogged...

I never knew you couldn't mount them shaft vertical like that. .(I just went hunting literature) I thought you just didn't want to mount them motor down so water wouldn't get into the motor if a seal leaked. I'll make the change and thanks for pointing that out!

I just looked at Taco becasue this is my first Grunfos as well, Taco will let you do it as long as system pressure is above 20psi. Thinking back though, I can't recall ever mounting one shaft vertical before

Bryan_16

rotate the pump

90 degreesa to keep the shaft horizontal. Beter lubrication and longer life. Did read in one mfg. sheet that you can do vertical shaft if you maintain at least 20 psi.

Unknown

yup,

we just did a simulpost. I'm on it! Just when you thought you were done and everything looked fairly pretty. LOL...

Live and learn!

Steve M_2

Cement blocks?

What did the inspector say about setting it on the concrete blocks? I know that wouldn't fly in my area. Also it's a good idea to pitch the Munchies back slighty so the condensate will drain out of the heat exchanger better. You need to tell the customer that you need to do an annual service that includes the cleaning of the heat exchanger.How did it go setting up the combustion? Do you recall your CO2, O2, CO and flue temp readings?

Unknown

Don't know...

Didn't see the blocks as being an issue, why would they be? I've set a few Crown Scotch Marine types up high on blocks like that for the same reason, nobody has had problems with them. The unit is pitched back, the floor has a natural pitch to it that worked out quite nicely for that purpose. We'll have to wait to see what the inspector says, I personally find nothing prohibiting this method.

Now, I'm thumbing through the start up procedures in the manual one more time right now and I'm not seeing anywhere that it requires me to take these readings, nor do I see any specs anywhere as to what it should be running at, so I'll have to admit to firing it up, making sure it worked ok and leaving it at that.

Unknown

OK,

I see in the start up chart in the back there's a place that says, "Check CO2 and CO and adjust if necessary" Adjust to what values? Using what procedure? I will say I find the book to be a little vague in parts.

Another thing, just an observation, if they want you to pitch it back why do they allow you to hang it on what should be a level wall? Are you expected to put spacers behind on the bottom to create this pitch? Or is it built in to the frame?

First thing I went looking for was the non-existant leveling legs on the T-50.

Unknown

Another approach?

You have nowhere to hang the boiler. What other approach would you use besides the blocks? Steel frame? I can't see putting it on the floor and then servicing it on your hands and knees.

bill_97

Boiler on blocks

That'll pass code in my neck of the woods anytime . I'm not sure what the isuue would be ?

Fuel burning appliances should always be checked for proper combustion numbers . What those numbers are for Munchie are not in the manual ? If you have a test kit , do the test and record what numbers you have just to CYA .

Unknown

Yup,

Will do. I'll be on the phone talking to them Monday just to see what they say about it. No, I cannot find any values but I'll look again, tomorrow.

thanks all!

Another observation, no room to grab the 1 1/4" stubbies to back them up when wrenching. An extra 1/2" would be nice.

Pinball

They are in the book

low fire CO2 9.5-10.5% CO under 20ppm

high fire CO2 9.5-10.5% CO under150ppm

Press and hold s-2 and s3 simultaneously for three secs. to get into the service mode then S1 or S2 to manually ramp the fire up or down. It will respond after the flame stabilizes.

Unknown

yup,,,

Found them, I used section 13 to start up, they are at the end of section 12 start up procedures. Oopsy...

I have the old style Bacharach kit, looks like it's time to update.

here's a question, If I have my OD sensor hooked up but no DHW heater or sensor does that make my install "Regular" or "Vision 1" ?

I notice I say "yup" a lot. LOL!

Unknown

ah,,,

It's the fan speed that modulates? Doh...

Reading through again I have to ask if anywhere they give a manifold gas pressure? Is it negative?

And then piping. I'm not nuts about this p/s setup, seems like a waste running two pumps. Any thought been given to using a manifold with zone valves and a bypass loop with regulator to ensure proper flow?

klaus

Neg press gas valve

It is a negative pressure gas valve so you don't take any readings there. You adjust the gas valve by the readings you get during the combustion tests.

The primary secondary piping arrangement with the Munch assures proper flow through the boiler. Because it is a very low water volume device it's very important it gets adequate water flow. It measures entering and leaving water temps and will only allow a certain Delta T, as I understand. Therefore if the flow's not adequate, you may never see full output of the boiler.

The blocks wouldn't fly with the inspectors in my area either. We have damp basements in Iowa and the blocks will deteriorate over time.

When you rotate your pump 90 degrees be sure the motor wiring connections are facing up. Another requirement by Grundfos. I've been using these pumps for years and have had great results.

Unknown

Ok

yea, I figured upwards on the connections just to make it easier for wiring. We'll see what the inspector says about the blocks. If he doesn't like it there's plenty of perforated steel angle around there I can use to put together a steel frame. Although I HAVE used blocks in that town before. I've never considered them as deteriorating over time.

There used to be I think a Trane unit that used negative gas pressure as the flame safety. If the fan wasn't turning no gas would come out. On those units you DID set them up by manifold gas pressure in the negative range and I still have the Magnahelic gauge I used for that purpose. Haven't seen another neg pressure in years, till now.

You know, it's nice to have a place where someone who works alone for himself to post a new to me type of install like this and get the info needed to make sure I don't run afoul of all the details that there are to run afoul of. I realize I missed the whole setup thing now because they have it under "Test Mode" which I glanced over and didn't pay attention to. I figured I wasn't looking to go into any test mode, I just wanted to fire that baby up, so I skimmed right by it and into section 13.

Meanwhile, for all the sophistication that goes into those pumps I can't believe vertical shaft is a no no. Glad you guys caught it even though I'm feeling like a bit of a rookie, even after 30+ years.

Supply House Rick

F09 F09 F09

F09 F09 F09 F09 F09 git used to that code, it will be your mantra

Unknown

Why?

What is the most common cause?

Forget it, I did a search on it here. Very interesting results. I learned a lot in that 1/2 hour of reading.

The unit was waiting to be hardwired when I left it Friday so it hasn't run other than my tests. I have plenty of time to pick up the right meter and set it up the right way. I do know it is pitched back and is level. I'll keep it clean and we'll just see how it goes. If the codes start coming in you'll hear it here first.