Velcro Plumbing

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

I installed a Hansgrohe shower valve yesterday and the shower plate was held to the wall with velcro instead of screws. Of course it didn't hold the plate tight and I expect the double sided tape on the velcro may come loose after time, because it is stuck to plastic and chrome. The body of the shower valve had holes for the screws, but I expect some pencil pusher accountant talked them out of the screws to save what, 50 cents? What's next, velcro holding copper fittings together? You spend a lot of time and money to do the best job possible, and then you have to put this in. What do you guy's do when people want to buy their own fixtures?

Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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Howard Emerson

My customer bought one too............

...............and that is me!

I saw the same thing when I opened the box a few weeks ago, and although I'm sure it will work, here's what I do in situations like this:

Get a roll of fresh electrical tape and following the curve of the plate make a complete circle 1/16"+ away from the edge where it meets the tile. Also make a complete circle on the face of the plate right at the very face-edge of the plate.

Now put clear silicone on with a small hole cut in the tube to avoid heavy flow. Less is better.

With a wet finger you squeeze it tight in the 'groove', and then pull the tape carefully, and you should have a perfectly caulked line.

Of course you can use water based caulk and just wet-sponge it in, but they tend to yellow with age, and wherever there is movement, they'll eventually crack or seperate somehow.

Yes: They should have screws like the old Moentrols, et al!

HE

J.C.A._3

Howard,

Not that your idea won't work....but for the money paid for a "supposedly" high end product line, I would DEMAND nothing but the best.

I'm frankly getting sick of having to "repair" all the stuff I'm getting, BEFORE installing it. Plumbing AND heating!

Where do these manufacturers get off asking us to repair or replace THEIR products....BEFORE we install them?

It isn't anyone but the flipping "bean counters" fault either.

If a product cost me a few dollars more, I'll gladly pay for it....but I'm sick of trying to fix it first. Quality is priceless....junk IS JUNK. Keep pushing and see where the profits go, all you bean counters!(HINT....to your competition)

No excuses....quality products RULE! Chris

Howard Emerson

Form and function

Hi JCA,
I fully believe that Hansgrohe, like his uncle Freidrich (I think it's his uncle), makes top notch stuff, but they do push the envelope at times.

I like not seeing screws holding the plate on, frankly, and I'm sure this is their intent.

I'm almost through tiling my shower area, so I'll be setting the cartridge, etc pretty soon, and I bet that the system they're using will keep the escutcheon pretty tight to the wall. By the way it is not your typical Velcro, but a more rigid form of interlock.

A tight rubber gasket is also involved in holding the plate on, and the body, if installed properly, is basically caulked twice (once on the wallboard, once on the tile)and so anything more would be redundant.

I'll know for sure soon enough, and I'll keep the electrical tape handy......

HE

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

You will lose that bet Howard

The Velcro, or interlock, will only hold the plate in place, it won't pull it in towards the tile. I ended up with more than a 1/16" space. How long will that double sided tape last? I bet that have a fancy name for the double sided tape too.

Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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Howard Emerson

Hedging...........

Bob,
I did say I was going to keep the tape nearby.......

A 1/16" gap really is unforgiveable. Maybe without the inter-velcro it would sit closer?

Wouldn't that be ironic.

Best,
HE

singh

hansgrohe

In Europe Hansgrohe fixtures are "common" . Much like a Delta faucet would be here.
It's just that the American consumer is thinking they are getting some greater bling bling to show their friends and neighbors, "look we have hansgrohe"

Personally I don't care for them, and pefer Kohler (and American made) for a more upscale look.

As far as the Velcro goes , yes it does hide the screws, and yes it does hold.(Over three years) I never had a call back on them yet, and believe me the clients who installed these gripe about every little thing, I'm sure they would call me if the plate fell off.



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kev

HANSGROHE

and GROHE are two different company's. I just installed a ROHL thermostatic control valve and it had only the friction from the cartridge sleeve trim to hold the plate on. The velcro looks pretty good now.

Howard Emerson

Quite satisfied in the end...........

Hi Bob,
So I set the cartridge, etc yesterday and I have to say that I am quite pleased with the result, despite some other difficulties along the way.

The Hansgrohe 'Talis' is the thermocontrol shower control/diverter that I installed, by the way, and there's no plastic in sight, aside from the plaster guard that gets trimmed 1/16" proud of the finished surface. It's primarily an installation aid and 'waterproofing tool', or second bag, if you like:-)

That's a trick in and of itself, but a fresh razor, a fender washer, Crazy Glue and some thin felt made a serviceable trimming tool.

In any case, Saturday night I was installing the cartridge, which must be tested for leaks prior to finishing up (they think you'll possibly leave the plaster shield blue gasket in place and ruin things).

So I was going through the motions and trial fitting the 'carrier plate', which is screwed to the retainer plate.......Seems the retainer plate had a bad thread that allowed the screw almost all the way in, but then suddenly 'locked'.....Took a hacksaw and file to get the old SS screw out, and then I retapped the 5mm X 80 hole and got a new screw.

The leak test went without a hitch, and so on to the finish stuff.

The escutcheon plate stayed very tight to the wall without the Velcro, but I put it on, anyway, where they indicate in the pictures.

It is the WRONG location and would not catch at all, so I moved it to the next 'step' on the carrier plate (very, very good glue, even the second time around!!).

That did the trick and it very loudly snapped together and locked tight. Not even a piece of paper would slip behind the escutcheon, for the most part.

My tile, however, involved a deco strip that has rough surface porcelain and glass tiles, one of which I had to file a groove in to accomodate the rim.

Despite the good fit, however, I understand the basic principles of water: It goes wherever it can to cause you problems if you don't pay attention, so I did my clear silicone anyway.

Even if they provided screws, it wouldn't really help as they don't provide a gasket in back of the escutcheon the way Moen and Delta do (they did, at least, when I was building bathrooms full time in the early 90's).

Regards,
Howard

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

Screw Problem

I had the same problem with the ss screws. I spent a lot of time trying to line up the screws and two would go in a little way then lock up, they didn't seem to be cross threaded. Finally I couldn't even get them out and broke them off, maybe that's why they give you four screws there. The problem with the screws and the velcro on the plate made me a very dissatisified customer. I wish I had your patience.

Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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Howard Emerson

Me, patient?

Hey Bob,
I'll never be accused of having patience, although my guitar students would argue vehemently that I have the patience of a saint:-)

On the other hand, you do this for a living, and if I was still doing it, I'd be really, really pissed off that the threading tolerances, etc were not up to snuff.

The 4 screws are there for a good reason: To tightly secure that gasket under the plate (you know that, I'm sure)..........but it's ironic that they left that semi-circular cutout at the bottom of the gasket..........

Can you say 'weep-hole'?

Some of it is impeccably designed and machined, and other parts of it just don't exude any real continuity of 'quality through and through'.

By the way, did you do the install as a retro-fit, or as new install rough-in, and then a return for the finish parts?

Regards,
Howard