single pipe steam system questions

Bruce Stevens_2

I grew up in York so I know about summer people and tourists I have no problem with them but the malls are filled 10 to 11 months of the year but the tourists are only here 4 or 5.

gwen

our one pipe steam system

Hi,

I own an 1850's vintage home in Maine. It's a 2 story colonial with 10 single pipe steam radiators covering about 2300 sq. ft. The fuel oil bills are becoming huge, so me and my DH are thinking of sprucing up the old system.

The boiler is very old, at least 80 years, and was once fueled by wood then coal, now oil. There are some problems with the system. The radiator closest to the boiler on the first floor constantly drips water through the vents. We keep a bucket underneath. Another radiator on the second floor drips water when the system is in full swing in January to March. The water in the system is probably dirty as well as the steam vents.

In spite of the problems the radiators work well as far as keeping the house warm. There is insulation on the pipes (encapsulated asbestos) and around the boiler.
I looked around the boiler today and was puzzled to find tin cans atop the steam vents near the boiler. It doesn't look right to me.

Here is a url to some photos of the system. It takes a bit of time to download.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/gwens/our steam boiler system/?albumview=grid


I realize that there is too much to analyze here in one post. I guess I'm looking for a starting point. Does anyone have a suggestion on a good brand of boiler for such a system? A good contractor in Maine near 04841 zip code. I appreciate your input.

Gwen

Brad White_194

Oh Where To Start?

Dan's book, "We Got Steam Heat!" is a good start as may be "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". The "Steamy Deal" is not far off and there is so much ground to cover.

In Brief:

1. Is the house as well insulated as it can be? Start there if saving fuel is the goal. Blower door test to find air leaks, seal with foam, lots of things like that.

2. Identify and measure the steam radiators, sections, columns, tubes. The surface area (EDR or Equivalent Direct Radiation) is your boiler sizing basis for steam, not the heat loss. (We can adjust radiator sizes to heat loss if you are diligent and ambitious. Few actually do.)

3. Modern oil-fired steam boilers are getting nicely efficient, 85-87% properly sized. Burnham Mega Steam is one with a good following. Question is, what does your installer support well?

4. Installation is critical- Low exit velocities, good high rise off the boiler, the more the better but at least 24 inches, proper equalizer, Hartford Loop... venting. Venting is a subject all it's own.

5. A new boiler is an invitation to clean it and start new. You can even clean yours now if not replaced. Dirty boiler = poor steam quality.

6. Operating pressure- as low as you can. A pound may be too much. 8 to 12 ounces maydo it up right.

Where to start?

gwen

thanks for the info



Brad, The points you made are very helpful and to the point, though I have to admit that I still don't understand more than half of it.

I want to be somewhat informed before we start talking to heating/plumbing contractors. I've got Dan's book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". I now need to sit down and try to actually read it. I'll copy what you've so kindly written and tuck it in the book for reference.


It seems like too much to ask that our 130 year old steam system could ever work smoothly. She's like a living entity with plenty of quirks and personality! And, of course our boiler is named "Bertha". Unfortunately our cast iron Bertha will probably have to go. I checked out the brand you mentioned- I really like the idea of a new boiler that is designed for steam only. I just read that the Mega Steam is designed to prevent corrosion. It would be good if there were an experienced contractor in my area who installs them.

It looks like there's plenty of homework to do for now!

nicholas bonham-carter

ancient boiler

probably the cans over the vents are there to stop them spitting--due to excessively high pressure or due to old vent syndrome.
the same high pressure could also explain the leaks around the radiators.a good 0-60 OUNCE gauge [www.gaugestore.com]will show what your pressure is whether on the old boiler or the new.either boiler should have a 0-16 oz.vaporstat to cycle the burner and maintain the required 4-12 oz. range.you must also keep the o-30 psi gauge for code compliance.
you may have to become knowlegable yourself with dan's book and lead a less informed plumber through the whole job but i know you can do it.
you will be amazed how improved even an ancient system can be in terms of "comfyness" when run as the dead men intended.
you don"t mention noise so the job of replacement should have no surprises.however if you deceide not to replace at this time ;then at least have the low pressure gauge ,vaporstat, new steam suitable thermostat, and new vents installed.keep us informed how it goes!good luck--nbc

gwen

It's a big learning curve

I do remember, it was a long time ago, seeing the vents near the boiler spew steam like an old locomotive. I'm assuming that "old vent syndrome" means clogged or dirty vents. The pressure has been tinkered with every year by a different technician from the oil service company. I'm interested in checking out the pressure with various gauges. I doubt if the system has more than one. It's surprising and counterintuitive to know that the pressure should to be low for a steam system.

As I learn from the book and this forum I'll need to find someone who doesn't mind working with an informed customer. I'll look into having the parts you mentioned installed or replaced.

Thanks for your suggestions and encouragement. I'll check back in as things progress

Steamhead (in transit)

There are good steam men in Maine

click on Resources above, then Find a Professional and follow the instructions to locate one. Once it's straightened out, it will heat quickly, quietly and efficiently with no squirting water.

The MegaSteam is the best residential oil-fired steam boiler out there today, but Burnham doesn't (yet?) support a gas burner in it. If you want to go gas, the Smith G-8 is the way to go. It uses a power gas burner setup that is more efficient then the usual atmospheric type, and can be switched over to burn oil if desired.

"Steamhead"

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

gwen

contractors few and far between

This is a great site. I found the page you mentioned. There are 3 in the state. Of concern is that all are over 60 miles away. This could be a problem if the system breaks down in the worst of the cold. There may be others who could do the job but are not listed. When getting an estimate I could ask the others if they've read Dan's books and then test them on it without them really knowing it.

My DH wants to check out what our local oil people are offering. It's called a System 2000 and is not specifically for steam. I may bring up a separate thread on what brands of boilers are being offered here once we get further into the project.

Steamhead thanks for your recommendations. And going with gas is another option I've not thought of. Though I have thought of pellets. Gov. Baldacci of Maine is promoting pellets. Too early in the technology for that. Probably we'll stick with oil because we have the tank in the basement.

Dale

service thoughts

Emergency service is not a problem with steam. As to the new install and piping fixes you have a lot to consider and will spend a lot of money to do this right. The key is the install contractor, service where there is no heat is called burner service where I live. What is strange about steam is that the burner side, gas or oil is very simple compared to a modern furnace or condensing boiler. If you have one local guy that can fix a modern water boiler or furnace that's not starting he can fix a steam boiler on the burner side. Also, this should not be done half way, commit to the best contractor you can find, new boiler and piping fixes as a package if you are staying with steam.

gwen

That's a distinction that I wasn't aware of. The burner service is probably the same as the service from the oil company (where I live). They get here in good time always. It's good to here that I won't need a steam system expert to do an emergency fix! That gives us more room as far as hiring a contractor. Thank you.

The guy who installs the system itself really has to be good. I agree. The cost might be staggering. We are hoping that it's not too much more than 5 grand. Removing the old stuff is a big deal in itself. Big Bertha will have to be cut and divided I'm sure.

Piping fixes... hopefully they will just be around the boiler area. Still that is something important that a contractor might avoid because it's such a hassle. Our house foundation has sagged a little bit in the front and might have changed things as far as the angle of the pipes. Result-the radiator valve that leaks the most is where the house may have sank (a bit) on the granite foundation. Thanks for your input. Wish me luck!

bill nye_3

Gwen

Gwen I thought "60 miles" in Maine was "just down the road a piece." As in "we'll just take a day and ride into town"

gwen

Nye not the Science Guy,

Another saying about Maine is "you can't get theyah from heeyah". Some want to disprove that I guess.

It's absolutely true that Mainers by necessity will drive long distances for work, shopping, dr's appointments, etc.. Not being a native Mainer I find it strange that people here will regularly drive for hours in the ice and snow to go to a shopping mall or sporting event. Nowadays people will have to change their ways or go broke.

gwen

Maineahs

Nye not the Science Guy,

Another saying about Maine is "you can't get theyah from heeyah". Some want to try to disprove that.

It's absolutely true that Mainers by necessity will drive long distances for work, shopping, dr's appointments, etc.. Not being a native Mainer I find it strange that people here will regularly drive for hours in the ice and snow to go to a shopping mall or sporting event. Nowadays people will need to change their ways or go broke.

Bruce Stevens_2

gwen

All I can say is come on down to Kittery Freeport to the outlet malls and tell me how many License plates in the parking lots are from Maine and how many are from Ma, Ct, Ny, now Mainahs as you call us may drive long distances by necessity, but you can't tell me that all those cars from away couldn't have found a store or mall closer to home.

gwen

From away

Bruce in Kittery,

Vacationers and summer home owners and people from away in vacationland are another story aren't they.