Waterfurnace

Craig R. Bergman_4

what's up with WFI. We install GeoComfort equipment, which was manufactured for them by WFI. GeoComfort was the LARGEST customer for WFI and they were treated poorly, too say the LEAST. GeoComfort has stopped sourcing from WFI and bought Hydro Module. GeoComfort now manfactures Hydron Module AND GeoComfort ground source heat pumps. You can check them out at www.GeoComfort.com.

Bergy

Josh M.

Has anybody else received push back from Waterfurnace when inquiring about becoming a dealer? It's really weird. I called asking about becoming a dealer and they kinda discouraged it. Even after explaining that we have 6 successful geothermal installs under our belt.

They finally relented and told me that I would have to go through training. So I said "sign me up." As it turned out they canceled the class I was supposed to attend and never returned my calls about attending another course.

Oh well, Climatemaster seems to be all over getting us as a contractor...

I'm not saying all of this to get attention either. I have recently talked to a few other contractors that got the same crappy service and push back.

My question is this... Is it just my perception or is it reality with this company?

Unknown

Reality,,,

I've had the same experience here in CT. They have a long time dealer here already and are not willing to let anyone else in the area sell their product. I agree it's a wierd way to do business. I assured them there were other geo companies out there more than willing to compete with them.

Wayco Wayne_2

Same here in MD

I have a friend who has been a dealer for years and sez Water Furnace has been inundated by contractors looking to get in, but they want to keep control and not sell to just anyone. I also believe they also want to protect and be loyal to their existing customers/dealers. WW

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don_185

That

That will come back to bite them in the butt.Soon you guys that do service on them will find it hard to even get parts because you are not a dealer.

Lennox is that way as well.I've see so many lennox untit out there that do not have oem parts in them.

I also know a bunch of guys in my area that will talk the customer out of a lennox product every chance they get.

They being water furnace better hope that goodman does not get into the geo mix.If so some stock holder are going to become highly upset.

Unknown

Yep,

Contractor loyalty is the main issue I believe. Funny you find them set up at the trade shows though. "We'll show you the stuff but we won't sell it to you." I happen to know the WF people in CT very well and occasionally do work for them when they get behind so I at least have a shoe in. We talked about comissions on sales etc. I just can't get them wells by anybody though. The $ is mind boggling and then, as mentioned in another thread, there's strip heaters in them for supplementary? Hmmm,,,

Unknown

Well,

think about the customer. There's only 1 qualified contractor in all of CT (and maybe beyond) to service that equipment. You can't just call anybody on them. I've never tried to get parts from them myself. Sounds like an interesting experiment. The term "retriction of trade" always came to mind when I thought about them. Go look at Econar, they'll sell you one. I have no experience with them however. I have talked to them a few times and they seem to be on the ball.

Craig R. Bergman_4

MPF

Strip heaters are used as Aux and emergency back-up heat. In the northern third of the states we size the Geo unit to handle about 92%-98% of the heat load at design temp. The strip heater will make up the 2%-8% of the heat requirements.

It is done this way for two reasons...

First is economics. Remember, for every ton of heating and cooling required there is loop. A 4 ton system has 4 loops buried outside. If I can get a three ton unit to handle 93% of the load a 4 ton unit would have more than needed.
Around here a loop field costs between $1,600 and $2,300 per ton to install. The cost difference between a 3 and 4 ton system is about $2,800 to $3,500. That's a big chunk of money for 2% to 8% of the heatng run time!

Second is cooling. Our heating loads are higher than our cooling loads so we need to keep the unit close to both loads. A 3 ton, two stage unit, has about 25,200 BTU/hr on first stage. A 4 ton, two stage unit, has about 33,600 BTU/hr on first stage. The added 8,400 BTU/hr may be too much cooling for the home.

I hope that all makes sense.

Bergy

Unknown

Thanks Bergy,,,

It does make sense. I guess I could live with only 8% of the load being picked up on electric heat, given the overall economics as you describe. I haven't done much with groundsource so I think in terms of air source. I was a little surprised to find strip heaters in the WF units when I first started opening them up. I was under the impression ground source wouldn't need any at all. Thanks for the info!

m

Bryan_16

Located

Where are you located at Mr. Bergman? Bryan

Craig R Bergman

Out in the middle...

of the corn fields. Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Bergy

Unknown

Did ya,,,

ever get a speeding ticket in Iowa from a trooper who looked a little bit too much like John Denver? I did! His parting words were, "Catch you later!" LOL...

klaus

Hydron Module

I have a water to water Hydron Module GSHP installed in my home and love it. It's a very well built, solid machine.