System 2000 EK2 install

Howard Emerson

Keith,
Post purge on the EK is to the last zone that called, be it a thermostat or the storage tank.

HE

bill_97

Kenny , Paul and myself

teamed up on this install in LLoyd Harbor , NY . The homeowner bought the house recently and wanted the system that should save him the most in fuel use .

The bock heater was only 7 years old , but the Weil Mclain boiler seen better days . A real nice hodgepodge of pipes and wires and whatever .

And a few pics of a rarity this far west in Suffolk County . A deer eating green apples on the front lawn .

bill_97

EK2

Real sweet setup and just as quiet as the EK1 . We ruined the safety aquastat that mounts on the back . You just can't handtruck the boiler without taking it off . If anyone from EK is reading this , it might be a good idea to use a regular mount aquastat back there or ship it unmounted , or even use regular screws on the mounting flange so we can take it apart easier . Just a little pet peeve of ours . The only hiccup on an otherwise smooth install .

Ken Field

Use blocks

made from 2X6 on the hand truck and a couple of ratchet straps to keep everything together. You can see them in the picture. We pre-pipe as much as possible in the shop to save time on the job.

Ken

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rich p_4

Aquastat

Hi Ron:
Try using the piece of plywood that comes with the boiler between the hand truck and the boiler.
It seems to work for me.
My territory manager also has a very simple wooden device that makes moving it a snap.
Good luck
Rich

Steamhead (in transit)

Nice job

as usual. Keep 'em coming!

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Keith_8

nice job

Ron,
By the book, looks great!

I'm contempating between converting to a condensing propane boiler or installing a System 2000. I haven't met anyone yet who isn't happy with the fuel savings of the System 2000.

My current boiler is a Burnham LE with a Riello. Runs like a champ, no problems but @ 1300 gallons a year it's time to do something. My current boiler is running @ 82% eff. Any thoughts on how much fuel I would save with the System 2000?

Keith

Robert O'Brien

Keith

Do you have an indirect? That's pretty high consumption,old house?Loose construction?

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Howard Emerson

Have cake, eat too!

Hi Keith,
If you get an EK installed, you can start with oil, and then convert if you think the per-therm price is cheaper with gas. The EK is non-fuel specific.

It appears to me that after having our EK-1 for almost 2 years, a great deal of the savings show themselves during the last delivery in the spring until late fall/heating season starts.

Our old boiler was always coming on even when no hot water was being used when it was just keeping it's core temp up.

I remember when Rob Obrien came over for the estimate (that eventually made up our minds on EK and Rob)the boiler beneath the dining room table where we sat came on at least twice in an hour during a hot August day.

Aside from lowering our consumption from 1230 gals/year to 790 gals/year, it's incredibly quiet.

I also want to say that AFUE efficiency doesn't always correlate to MPG. Certainly you want the oil to be burned as totally/cleanly as possible, but how THAT is converted into usable heat is often a different thing.

It's the total system efficiency that is important in determining which system will use the least amount of fuel while heating your home and domestic hot water.

Regards,
Howard

Keith_8

Hot water included

Robert,

Yes, I have a TR45 indirect, 2 teenage daughters, 1 teenage son and my wife and me.

For the size of the house I think we are doing a little better than average on oil consumption. The house is 3000 square feet, good windows although there are 34 of them, 2 large double glass doors, insulation is average. My biggest problem is too many windows and doors. So much for letting the great outdoors inside.

Hydroair heating system with 2 air handlers.

That being said, the debate I'm having with myself is:

1, Should I install an outdoor reset on my current boiler?

2, Scrap my 10 year old boiler/indirect set up and install the System 2000 and stay with oil?

3, Install a condensing propane boiler and keep my indirect? No natural gas available so I need the propane tank set up. I'll have 80' of underground trenching to get it into my house from where I would be willing to store the tank on my property.

I have the space in the basement to leave the oil boiler inplace if we convert so that we will have the ability to switch back to oil if the fuel becomes cheaper than propane per BTU.

4, Regardless of what we do I'll be installing programable thermostats now that my wife has rentered the work force (YEH).

We'll probably be in the house for another 8 years.

What would you guy's suggest?

Keith

Keith_8

Thanks Howard

It sounds like you had a boiler with a tankless coil so it need to maintain temperature.

My boiler is demand start so I don't have the same issue.

What I have noticed is the boiler shutting down after a call to reheat the indirect and leaving 190* water sitting in my boiler with no purpose. The boiler is a Burnham LE with low water content. Even though my Reillo burner had a damper on the air inlet to the burner I'm sure there is some standby loss. The Sytem 2000 purges the heat and dumps it into the hot water tank.

My guess is that I wouldn't see the 35% savings you realized but more like 20% savings for my application. I already purchased the outdoor reset for my current boiler and that should give me 10% savings, now if I could figure out how to purge the heat from the boiler on a shut down I could probably grab another 5%?

If my assumptions are correct then I guess I just talked myself out of the System 2000.

Any thoughts?

Keith

Leo_13

Outdoor Reset

Out Door Reset on hydro air may lead to feeling cold same with a condensing boiler if in condensing mode. Your boiler isn't an oil guzzler like many out there. The idea of the set back thermostats is a good one. Given it is hydro air make sure all the duct work is tight with no leakinging joints, especially in the attic.
System 2000 is a good boiler and I would stick with oil as propane often follows the price.

Leo

bill_97

And I wonder

if the air will feel cooler while the boiler purges its heat into the hydro air zones ? If there's aquastats controlling the fans on the zones , will the boiler be able to dump all its heat into them ? There are 2 hydro air zones on this system also .

2 teenage daughters ? I'm shocked you only used 1300 gallons Actually that sounds pretty good for that size house with all those windows and glass doors . Where are you located ? And what size LE do you have ? In the EK class I just attended the instructor told us the flat plate heat exchanger and storage tank will produce hot water faster than an indirect . Not so much more that you would see a huge difference , but definitely more . You can reuse your existing indirect though , no problem there .

Thanks Keith for the compliment .

bill_97

Good ideas

Ken and Rich . I got some scap 4 by 4s , I'll cut 2 of em to stand between the handtruck and EK . Thanks alot guys .

bill_97

Thanks Frank

We have 2 more scheduled next week . I'll post 'em if they come out 1/2 decent

Robert O'Brien

Keith

The System 2000 advantage in your case would be in the cold finish rather than the cold start.The manager will keep the fan running while the boiler purges residual heat.ODR won't do that.With most existing hydroair systems the EK setup is the best available.If you have oversized coils and are not controlling the fan by temp,ODR will work just fine but most don't.

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Keith_8

LE 2

Ron,
I have the LE 2, firing a Riello @ 1.00 GPH. In an attempt to lower my gross stack temp down to 400* I'm considering reducing the firing rate to .75 GPH.

The 1st Company Airhandlers have stock hot water coils which are rated to satisfy my heat loss @ 140* water. I'm not so sure about that rating, when it's down in our outdoor design area I find it necessary to raise the boiler temp to 180*. Might hvae something to do with the air handler/ductwork living in the attic

Reusing the indirect is a bonus. Does the System 2000 dump the left over BTU's into the last zone calling or the hot water storage tank?

Any suggestions on how to purge the heat out of my existing boiler?

I'm thinking maybe I should tweak the boiler, finish the outdoor reset, programable tstats, add pipe insulation and see what I can do to improve the environment the 2nd floor system operates in.

We live in New haven County, CT.

Keith

Keith_8

Thanks Howard

Any suggestions on how to create a purge feature for my LE?

Thanks for all the feedback guy's,

Keith

Ken Field

Get a System Manager

Energy Kinetics sells the manager by itself so your boiler can act like a System 2000. I don't think there is anything on their web site about it.

Ken

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Robert O'Brien

Keith

The HW AQ2000 has purge capability.It would be easier than trying to retrofit a manager onto a non EK boiler although it could certainly be done

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Keith_8

Thanks

I'll make the call.

Thank You,

Keith

Keith_8

what am I missing?

Robert,

I looked up the cut sheet and I didn't see anything regarding a purge feature for the AQ 2000.

Keith

Robert O'Brien

I've

used them quite a few times with Biasi and Viessmann Vito 100 oil boilers.Brochure attached,purge time is adjustable up to 30 minutes

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Darin Cook_5

Ron Jr

Your craftsmanship is top notch as always. But what really jumped out at me was how delicious that deer looked and that hunting season is on the horizon!!!!!!!!!!!





Darin

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Keith_8

Thanks,

The only feature that I lack in my existing Heat Timer control is the post purge on the HW AQ 2000.

How about a relay that closes when the burner shuts down and breaks when the auqastat drops in temp below 130* ?

Keith

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