GPS in service vans

Bob Harper

Like any management tool, GPA can be abused, overused, underused or just right. It is incumbent upon management to find that balance. You cannot afford to pay a manager to sit on his computer watching where each tech goes in real time. You should be paying him to periodically review the logs. If he is taking too long at jobs or travel time, the GPS will show where he is. Is he sitting stuck in traffic or at his house? When we found techs with low productivity and longer than expected times, the GPS provided the answers. If you thought he was at his house, you didn't prosecute him based upon a GPS log---you drove to his house with a camera and caught his red handed.

If techs are honest and conscientious, they need not worry about the eye in the sky. I would be happy to show the boss the reason I was at Mrs. Smith's house so long was because the first 5 guys cut corners whereas I was thorough, covered all the bases, corrected multiple problems, reviewed with the homeowner who is once again happy with us. That information is taken back to those first 5 techs to discuss their procedures and possibly review SOPs and documentation.

One side benefit of GPS allowed us to see geographically who was closest to a hot call and re-route them in real time. Didn't happen daily but it sure made us look good to a hot customer.

The company has the right to make a profit and that includes knowing your whereabouts. Would you rather call in your exact location every 15 minutes? Back when I was a paramedic, if someone called your unit, you did not answer hello, you gave your current position. If you were caught lying, it was a day without pay. That threat kept us where we were supposed to be. Ultimately, it was for the good of the customers, who, in this case, were patients.

If you are nervous about your whereabouts, then you should be.
Hearthman

Rocky_3

Who's using them and what do you think?

Am contemplating their use in my service vans. With fuel costs being so high, if I can discourage any unauthorized use of service vans, how can they not be worth it? I understand there is probably going to be some resistance from techs with the "Big Brother" complex, but at this point, I am thinking "tough". If it cuts fuel costs (and hopefully labor costs), can I handle some resistance from the techs or not? Am thinking I can. Put it in their best interest. With company profit sharing, less expenses mean more profit, means more in their end-of-year bonus check. Maybe that will go a long way towards ameliorating any ruffled feathers. Who's using them and what can I expect if I go that route? What company do you use?
Thanks in advance,
Rocky

[Deleted User]

great tool

Company i was working for had them and it definitely seperated the theives from the honest. It can also help you bill out time and material jobs. If you have guys that do side work in your truck they should have no problem giving you some gas money. Yes they will think you are invading their space but if you are letting them take home your van its your right to know where they are going.

Leo_13

I'm one of the Big Brother

I'm one of those guys with the "big brother" mentality. Are your losses that bad that it will be made up in the guys profit sharing? If that is the case your problems are deeper than what GPS can cure. I hate the big brother thing but my van goes home and stays there. In the winter it may go two miles up the street to municipal meetings I attend then it comes back home. At this point the company puts no restrictions on the van. I have nothing to hide but my honesty is my biggest asset and I have trouble with anyone who trys to challenge it.

Leo

Leo

tommyoil

GPS Phones

Our phones track us GPS wise. They also receive my job info and dispatches me directly through the phone. I like it as far as the job dispatching and dont really care that they watch me to within 40 feet of the phone location. The guys that have nothing to hide dont care. Those who start bitching may get a second look. Why **** when theres nothing to hide? Granted, it wont help when the guy throws the phone on his kitchen table and then takes the truck to do "errands". That said, if my thirty grand truck wasn't in my parking lot, I'd want to know where it was too. Cant blame big brother in this day and age.

JohnNY

GPS is good.

Rocky,
Just get it. You won't believe the difference in the way the day goes.

We got them about a year ago in 6 service vans.
Soon after, I had to fire a good plumber for taking the van on trips to his girlfriend's house at night. Warned him twice. He decided to play a little game of chicken with me. We both lost. But now I know where my van is at night.

It eliminates all the We-got-an-emergency-Where-are-you-right-now calls and the time it takes to make them.

It lets you know the routes the vans take from point A to point B. That's when I realized some of my guys don't know Manhattan very well. We fixed that.

Ours lets us set geographical alerts so we know when someone is going to a supply house or for lunch.

By miles driven, it lets us know when vehicles need oil changes, new tires, etc.

The online tracking map lets us set all kinds of POIs (points of interest) so we in the office know everyone's proximity to suppliers, ongoing projects, frequent client's homes, their own homes...it's all good to know and you'll find uses for all the new information all the time.


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[Deleted User]

I agree Leo. The honest majority are always punished because of the few dishonest. I used to work for a place that had it and was insulted as was everyone else. GPS can be disconnected pretty easily. If you're concerned about your trucks being used for other uses, there are a few cheap options. a - Don't let anyone take them home.
b - If you suspect someone is abusing the priviledge, take an odometer reading before they go home and check it in the morning. It's easy enough to figure out how far they live from the shop.
Some use the argument that you can see where the trucks are and dispatch more efficiently. It you know your service area, then you should be able to do that anyway. GPS didn't help at the last place I worked.


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tommyoil

Insulted??

What about gps would insult you? GPS is not a punishment. Its an accurate (albeit invasive) way to determine where your investment is and how it got there. I cant blame anyone who owns a truck (or alot of trucks) for using it. If anyone gets insulted by the company keeping track of your time and their equipment while on the clock (and the truck in off hours) then the door swings both ways. I'm tested randomly for drugs and alcohol. Should I quit my job because I dont agree with company policy? I'm insulted to think that someone would think I'm high on dope. How offensive! Now, suppose I'm high and take the truck to score some dope in the off hours? Wouldn't you (as my boss) want to know?? I sure would. The guys who argued the GPS and complained the loudest aren't home at 2:30 in the afternoon anymore. Leaving the truck in the company yard would not be practical as a 2 am service call would become a problem. Also, if I had to drive to my office everyday so my manager can look at my odometer, I'd add about 80 miles to my day JUST doing that. I wouldn't mind that myself because it would be GUARANTEED overtime, A win win for me. GPS is a win/win for them.

Glen

big brother? - perhaps

but they are also useful for accurate billing info, exact travel charges etc. A friend now uses them in Vancouver, BC - found out that he was severely under invoicing for time on the job and travel. Boosted his revenues immediately. IMO - they are the modern equivalent of the time clock. Necessary evil considering the enormous costs of maintaining and feeding a service vehicle.

JohnNY

Agreed

As owners of a business, you have a responsibility to everyone in your employ to maintain a profitable, self-sustaining company. You have a responsibility to your clients to maintain an efficient, responsive company and be able to dispatch a mature and trustworthy technician to their homes to do work which will bear your name.

If you can agree with that, then you can have no problem understanding that an employer has every right in the world to know exactly who is in what truck, where that truck is, how fast it's going, when the truck is due for service, and all the other things mentioned.

If an employee doesn't like it, too bad. There are lots of other shops where they can go to work and hide or make their own rules, but that's not happening at my place.

As I said, within a month after I had GPS installed in my vans, I was forced to lose an employee.

That's one out of 6 that takes a van home. Now I don't have ANY of the same problems. The employees that NEED to be watched are out there, like it or not.

I know perfectly well that I'm not an Islamist extremist, but I still empty my pockets and take off my shoes before boarding a plane.
This is where we are.

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[Deleted User]

I don't agree with GPS and I have every right to be insulted! It only keeps the honest people in check. The guys who are up to no good find a way around GPS. When they come up with a hard-hat camera will you make your employees where that as well? Afterall, it can be argued that you want to make sure your guys are doing a good job and aren't stealing the customer's property. All relationships are based on trust. Put a GPS on your wife or girlfriends car and see how that'll make them feel. Having worked at companies with and without GPS, I can say that it makes NO DIFFERENCE! The bad apples always turn up eventually. You guys ever hear of the term 'Probable Cause'?

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tommyoil

Probable cause?

I need probable cause to know where my equipment is? A work relationship is based on MONEY and then trust. My boss trusts that I'll make him money. Its only natural that an equipment owner would want to protect his investment at ALL COSTS. GPS is just another tool to be utilized like any other. It has its place and serves its purpose. I'd be fired for tampering with the GPS and so would anyone else working with me. Why would you want someone who evades the GPS working for you anyway? As I said earlier, production is up since everyone started working until 4:30 instead of 2:30. I dont mind the GPS. I may actually need it one day and I'll be happy its there. Besides all that, at least my bosses all know where to get a decent sandwich and a good cup of coffee now instead of those 7-11 go go taquitos and mud they call coffee. Now..... wheres those helmet cams? I like that idea BETTER than GPS. Just my observations.

JohnNY

Mike

You're confusing your "relationship" with your "wife or girlfriend" with that of your employees.
There's an etiquette to either and they are very different.
You should know that by now.

My employees and I get along as well as anyone could hope.
They stick around and I've watched several of them grow up, have kids, buy houses, buy second houses, you name it.

I respect and admire them for many reasons.

...but they're not my friends.

So they get a GPS.


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[Deleted User]

Here is a little observation. When someone is doing something wrong and they know they are being watched, they'll find a way around it. If they are dishonest, instead of using your truck for side jobs, they take your parts and put them in their car and off they go. There are also ways to shut off the GPS. If you need GPS to tell you when to service your trucks or where your guys are, in my opinion that is a bad excuse. Ever heard of a cell phone to call your guys and see where they are or call the customer and ask to speak to them. My point is that you are never going to stop certain people from abusing privledges. You can only stop your association with them. Wait for a GPS to malfunction and you accuse a good guy of being somewhere he isn't and possibly fire him for it. I wouldn't put my trust in one of those boxes. If it works for you - by all means use it. It goes against my beliefs. Here is the logic. If by sacrificing a little personal freedom we could have a better society, then by sacrificing all personal freedom we would have the perfect society. Today it's GPS - tomorrow it will be Hard Hat Cams. And I know it will be justified; like this- "If you get hurt on the job we'll be able to see it happen and possibly save your life." Personal freedoms are not taken away in one fell swoop, but icrementally. Anyway, good debate in my opinion. Good luck with it.

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JohnNY

I see your point, Mike.

Please forward literature for helmet-cam.

LOL


Be well.


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Leo_13

Ben Franklin

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

I'm the last person who has anything to hide from GPS but no way would I want to work under it. If my company went to it I know I would be looking for a job and I would never accept a job at a company that uses it. As far as mileage, call it in at the end of the day. It can be physically verified when the van goes into the office. If things are that bad in a company then maybe a supervisor is needed that leaves the office once in a while.

Leo

Glen

bravo!

well said -

JohnNY

Ugh.

Yes. This is PRECISELY the kind of issue Ben Franklin had in mind when he said that.

My vans don't go to the office. The mechanics take them home.
You see, the "liberty" they receive is the transportation expenses to and from work every day that I absorb and pay.
Among other things.

How about this? Tomorrow I'll get everyone together and tell them that instead of suffering the burden of being under the watchful eye of their employers, they may now drop the vans off at the shop at the end of every work day and commute back and forth with their own cars.



That said, let's not pretend that employees don't take whatever "liberties" they deem acceptable whenever they can.
That doesn't mean anything specific. I just mean everyone's guilty of it. Myself included.
Show me a guy who gets a company vehicle to take home every night and I'll show you a guy who's taken a company car to the supermarket.











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[Deleted User]

Did you know...

that MANY cell phones have a GPS feature, and many companies can and do use that feature to track employee locations?

You know you're in trouble when an exiting employee, who asks for an exit interview TELLS you that you should put GPS into all of your trucks... (Hello Noel :-)

Like it or not, big brother is here to stay in more ways than you can imagine. Almost every email and telephone conversation can be monitored by numerous agencies at any given time.

Get use to it.

ME

Leo_13

It is very simple

It is very simple, if you can't trust me then I don't need to be working for you. It is your van, your risk, your liability, I respect that. But I deserve some respect in return. I'm not stupid, the van is equivlant to about five dollars an hour, I don't abuse that. I still maintain good supervision doesn't need electronic spyware. But it does make it easier for a boss with no ba--s to discipline an employee that needs it.

The Ben Franklin quote was more to employees than owners.

Leo

tommyoil

Respect

Is what you get at the end of the week. Its called a PAYCHECK ! Its not just trust Leo. Its about the money. What part of protecting an investment is confusing here? The vans worth say 25 grand. Add the tools and whatever equipment, and that number could easily be 50 g's. Lets try this...
When you go to the bank they record every move you make. Is all of your vast fortune stuffed in your mattress? After all, why would you want to keep your money in a place that records every move you make?? How invasive!!! Not only that, they have your address, your social, they know your wifes name. Thats pretty intrusive, wouldn't you say? They know how much money you have and where you spend it. Thats alot of personal info floating around out there. That said, thats part of the reason the money is in the bank. Because, as the OWNER of the money, you know its safe and you feel its secure when you lay down at night. If good supervision doesn't require spyware, then good employees dont care about whos watching what they do. Suppose a customer wants to sit down and watch you work (in their own home mind you). Do you tell them to leave you alone and get out of the room? They may not trust you to do a good job based on the last guy that was there.Do you get offended and explain to them that if they dont trust you then you dont belong in their house working for them? My guess is NO ! You'd want them to see what a great job you have done and why the company needs you. Its the same thing with GPS. NOW, the boss KNOWS that you are a top employee and is getting the "interest" on his investment. If someone came in and gave an ultimatum of "me or the GPS", you wouldn't have to quit....you'd be fired. And Johns right, bringing the wives and girlfriends into this just does not apply. Anyone who has their wife followed around has some trust issues anyway and probably a screw loose. Its apples and oranges and John hit the nail on the head in that regard.

[Deleted User]

I agree Tommy - There is too much personal info floating around and I don't agree with that either. So is your argument that because a bank is invasive of your privacy, that you should be invasive of other's? I don't understand that logic. I treat those the way that I want to be treated. If I'm in someone's home they have every right to watch me. It is their castle. If you want to put in a GPS in your vehicle that your employees use - that is your right. It is their right to find another job if they choose. When you get down to the bottom of it you CANNOT control the actions of another person no matter how hard you try. Am I wrong about the dishonest employee that will circumvent the GPS? Am I wrong that the GPS is a device that can malfunction? How will you be able to tell if it was the GPS or the employee is lying? How much time and money will be burned in an investigation, if you even have one? You've listed the Pros - I've listed the cons. The benefit of living in a free country.

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TJ_5

GPS

I have worked for same company for almost 10 years,and have had a take home vehicle for most of that time. I do most of the night call out. My boss trusts me, that if I need the van for what ever he knows I will call and ask for permission, never have been denied yet. Others do not have take home vans for one reason or another. If GPS were installed it would make no difference to me, I have the trust of the employer, and he has my trust, the GPS would probability make me more OT since it is minute by minute, and those 5 or 10 mins of work that may go unreported will soon be reported, BOTTOM LINE Trust breeds Trust.

Leo_13

No Ultimatum Here

I have never nor would I ever give an ultimatum it's the GPS (or whatever) or I quit. Once I make my mind up I just go about my business then give a notice. I am at my third oil company, the prior two each left the door open when I left. I am not bragging but I am a good employee. GPS in no way would cause me to be fired. I am just old fashion, there is way too much intrusion into people's lives today. I was a police officer for 22 years prior to this line of work, as much as intrusive devices can be argued people still have rights. I don't argue a business should take care of what it has but I still maintain there is a trust and respect issue here, BUT that is found in our society everywhere today as sad as it is. The customer watching you work is a bad example, you are only there once a year as a rule. Issuing me your van should show some trust as we have entered into a relationship, I work for you, you pay me. The van is part of my pay. Both sides have a certain obligation to the other and if one side breaks this the relationship should be broken, simple as that. When it comes to it I don't feel bad apples should be laid off, if they deserve it they should be fired, black balled and taken to court if necessary. As I said in another post GPS will aid the boss with no ba-ls. That is a situation that seems to affect a lot of bosses. I am a fair person until I am crossed again it is tied with trust and respect. But enough on that, I don't have to work under such circumstances.

Leo

JohnNY

Malfunctions

They way they malfunction is obvious that it's the device and the correct information is often retrievable once it is reset.

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klaus

GPS

I've worked for the same employer for the past 8 years. They are great people, that's why I'm still here. For most of that time I had a service van that I took home at the end of the day. We didn't have GPS. If my employer would have wanted to add GPS only to MY van, I would have been insulted. If ALL the service vehicles were getting GPS than I would have viewed it as an investment by the company in THEIR vehicles. They own them they can do with them as they wish. I have a good relationship with my employer and nothing to hide. If they want to track every move of their veichle, that's their perogative.

I ALWAYS asked for permission before using the van and tools on my own time. Realizing the value I often times threw a $20 bill in the gas tank. It was worth it to me and only seemed fair.

If the GPS malfunctioned I would assume I'd be called in to the office to go over it and explain things. Maybe I had a DR. appointment in the middle of the day and I forgot to tell the boss that morning. I didn't turn time in for that "call" anyway! IF I'm wrongly accused I can always get pissed, and even quit if I choose.

I have nothing to hide and therefore don't feel "invaded" by "Big Brother" and his GPS. Don't read too much into that. I'm not saying that if you don't want it, you're trying to hide something. It's just my $.02.

Best regards to all, Rich L

[Deleted User]

This is not about GPS. On the issue of privacy, have you guys had your insurance companies for motor vehicles ask permission to check your financial info, the right to interview people and other intrusions? I have and I won't do it. It's not what you have to hide, it's who's business is it anyway? I don't see the connection of my finances to my driving ability. What happened to the fourth ammendment? Too many people saying "I have nothing to hide so... it's ok." If you want to do a background check on me, let me do one on you. I'm still looking into those Hardhat Cams. Then we could have a reality show about plumbing and heating.

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Techman

GPS stuff

Hi All!A quick check with the truck and business insurance policy will let you know IF the boss and YOU are held liable forany kind of accident coverage while using the van while NOT on a company function,work ,supply house ,educational seminars,etc,etc,.A fenderbender at the supermarket or where ever leave's WHO holding the bag .Is LoJack an after the fact GPS device? My truck ,my customer's,my way.Stopping for a normal coffee break,lunch break is one thing,going 15 miles out of the way is something else.I have right's too!

Mitch_4

I think personnaly

that the issue is being misread here...Its not an invasion of privacy...If you think so, please tell me how? I see you are being paid to work..during that time, you do not ahve private business, unless you clear it with the boss 1st. (hey we all have some things that occur only during working hours, and hey! you know what, you aren't being paid, but if the boss is willing to let you use HIS truck for it, double bonus to you...otherwise drive home or the shop, leave HIS truck, and cab it at your expense...

It is not like he is tracking what restaurants you take the missus to after hours (you shouldn't be using the company vehicle for that anyway..it sits inthe truck, it is NOT implanted in your arm...the most he will know is where you are, when you are there, when you leave etc while he is PAYING you.

My 2 cents

[Deleted User]

What did they do before GPS? I'll tell you what the dispatcher did. They knew where I was, when I left (had to call in), and where I was headed to. Then they got GPS and nothing improved. They still asked me where I was (felt like telling them to look at the computer). The techs were still criss-crossing each other's path just like before. The thieves were still thieves and the hacks were still hacks. Their methods may have changed a bit as a result of the GPS, but in the end it was the same. The guys that really cared, still really cared though some moved on for various reasons. It's about trust and mistrust. Any owner that wants to put in GPS - go for it. I have my own business now and vow never to put GPS in any vehicle. The hardhat cam is tempting but only for entertainment value. I remember the time I was on vacation from work. They pinged the company cell phone for location for some reason. I checked the lat. and long. on mapquest and it came up at my house. Why would they GPS the phone when I was on vacation? I had my own personal cell anyway. Theirs was on and plugged into the charger the whole time I was away. They were a really sneaky bunch without a spine.

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tommyoil

Right on mitch

Thats my thought on this subject too. I get paid well. I get TONS of vacation and sick time. Somewhere on the order of 8 weeks. I get to take the truck home. Its a big air conditioned truck with satellite radio. I can store almost all of my tools in it. I get pretty good medical( myself and family) because my union sees to that. Today I was excused early and was home at about 3:45 and went straight to the beach. Paid to sit on the beach is nice. I get every holiday off thats on the calender PAID ! They pay for my schooling and I get a bonus and a turkey at Christmas. Let me see, what else..... oh yes, they pay to replace any tools of mine that are damaged or broken while on the job. My union helped my son with his Eagle scout project and also gave him a scholarship for college. Did I mention uniforms and work boots? Discount on oil if I need it? The list goes on. I wont even get in to all the doubletime hours I rack up. They can GPS me all they want. Its a non issue with me and a HUGE money saver for them. I am treated way too well and with respect for a small thing like GPS to interfere with that.I dont feel invaded at all. It feels good to know that they're happy with what I do. I see the invasion of privacy issue you speak of Mike but only if the govt were to mandate something. When it comes to private business, they pay you, they own you. As I said, the red flags would fly high if someone working with me objected to GPS. I guess we could go on forever as there are clearly two side to this coin. We all have our views and I respect yours. If its any consolation, I'd trust you even without the GPS. Leo.... how in the world did you survive as a law man for 22 years. I'd have to imagine that you were being watched pretty closely during that time? How were you able to stand the intrusion of being constantly under the microscope, nevermind the politics of it all? That must have been the most invasive job of all time. Why didnt you quit under all of the watchful eyes? Then again, after 22 years, I'd be fed up with being watched all the time too. I see your point now.

Rocky_3

Thanks to all who replied

I have been in the field a lot the last couple of days so I haven't been able to check in on the thread I started. I appreciate the thought and time that has gone on in this discussion. Fact is, I find myself agreeing with points from both sides. There are lots of valid points raised on each side of the GPS coin. Here are the real world issues I am having:

Techs ARE supposed to call in when they leave a job and when they arrive at the next job. We provide "Nextel" type phones for techs to use so this is easy enough to do. Just "chirp" the office. Problem is techs still "forget", or just plain don't. I scold them and remind them and ask nicely and behavior improves for about three days then back to same old thing. So office is forever trying to raise them on the phone to see where they are at, when they will be leaving for next customer's job because that customer wants a "heads-up" so they can leave work and meet our tech. Too often the techs don't respond to the office either citing "cell phone coverage" issues, out of range, bad service etc. Granted, we have crummy reception up here, but not to the extent cited. So this is one reason I want to explore the GPS issue.

If techs truly forget we can take that task out of their hands. One less thing for them to worry about. As far as the issue of using a GPS to accomplish this, I guess I don't see how some folks see this as different than being required to "call in" with their Nextel unit. I mean, if a tech is required to call in when leaving and arriving a job anyway, what difference does it make if that "call" is accomplished via a cell phone, radio, land line, or electronic GPS? Calling in is calling in. Unless you have a larger issue with being tracked at all or the office needing to know where you are at any given moment. That is a different issue entirely. As the guy who signs the checks and provides the job security I do not see where requiring my guys to call in when they get to a job and leave a job, in order to accurately track labor, is outside of my prerogative.

One of the other issues is that almost magically their time cards reflect starting on the hour and stopping on the hour. Almost never do we see, "Arrive time 8:47, leaving time 10:09"...its "Arrive 9:00, leave 10:00". 22 minutes (granted its an example I know) times once or twice a day times X number of techs X 250 days a year? C'mon, we all know that is a KILLER! If the GPS can capture that "lost" time? Well, then EVERYBODY wins. The company makes more money, and as a direct result, the employees make more money in the form of profit sharing bonuses, better overall health of company etc.

My main goal is not to try to "catch" a thief. It is to be more accurate in my billing, more efficient in my dispatching, more fuel economical, and have a report that can verify to customers our time on the job. I agree, a dishonest person will always find a way to be dishonest. I trust everyone who works with me or else they wouldn't be working with me, but wasn't it Mr. Ronald Reagan that said ,"Trust but verify"? I know and trust all my neighbors.....but I still lock my doors at night. The issue is not one of keeping honest people honest, or stopping a thief, it is more, with me, an issue of keeping otherwise very good techs from becoming lazy in the one area that is the very LIFE BLOOD of this company...accurate capture of labor.

Thanks very much for the discourse,
Rocky

klaus

One more point

Before working in the trades I worked for just over 20 years in a factory as a machinist. I had to punch a clock in the morning and be in position to relieve the prevoius shift worker by 7 AM. They owned my butt from then until 3:30 PM when I clocked out. They kept track of my where abouts like a hawk while I was "on the clock". If I went to the rest room they were watching me walk away, and weren't afraid to mention I needed to hurry back. They were paying me for 8 hrs and they had the right to tell me what and where to do my job for those 8. On random days I even had to open my lunch box for inspection on the way out of the plant. If I didn't like it I had choices too. I finally exercised them and that's how I wound up in the trades. Not because I was mad or felt violated, just ready for a change. (One of the best decisions I ever made BTW!) That environment didn't exactly foster a mood of trust.

My whole point (from an employee's view) is while I'm being paid, my employer has every right to know EXACTLY where I am and what I'm doing. Should he just take my word for it? He could, I don't lie about it, but others I've worked with over the years have.

I personally don't feel that GPS is an invasion of my or anyone else's privacy. It's designed to keep track of the employee and the vehicle while on the clock. Seems to me like they have every right to do that. If the vehicle gets used "off the clock" I think the employer has the right to know that too, it's his truck, fuel, tools, etc.


It was a huge adjustment going from the structured factory, time clock setting, to going sometimes for weeks without even seeing the shop or a boss. NOT being watched over my shoulder while working really hit home to me just how much faith my employer placed in me to be where I was supposed to be when directed. The last thing I would have wanted to do was undermine that trust. I could see GPS doing that somewhat.

Just more of my random thoughts! Rich L

Rich Kontny_3

From one Rich to another

You said it best as I worked for a firm that put in GPS and it did not bother me a bit. I always try to be honest and fair and the GPS was no threat at all to me.

It falls into that "padlocks keep honest people honest" category. Also those who are uptight about GWs phone monitoring seem to be responding to salt in a wound. If you have nothing to hide why would it upset you.

My boss did think he had me once though as he questioned me in front of about six co-workers one morning about why I was pulling into a driveway for about 30-40 minutes almost every morning? "What the hell Kontny do you have a girl friend or something?' I responded by telling him that I would explain in his office. "No I want to hear about it now!" I said "OK if you look a little closer at that location you will find that it is the driveway to "Holy Hill" where I try to attend 6am mass every morning!"

Gary (my boss) did an about face went into his office and never had to question my truck use again. I of course chuckle time and time again about this encounter.

Rich

klaus

Ha!

I love it Rich!

And really it furthers the point. If they have a question about where the van is, they check the GPS. If they have further questions they can ask. Beats the heck out of somebody saying I see Rich start out early every day but never getting to the jobsite until later. He must be doing a side job or worse, something he shouldn't be doing.

Chris S

GPS

The benefit to an employer of being able to prove where his equipment is , was briefly touched upon.

I have a colleague who was questioned by one of his accounts as to billing, hours on the job. It was a long job that went over budget, and a month after the fact the GC was trying to reconcile, and save money. Perhaps even get some of his vendors & subs to settle their bills. ( that's a whole nother thread but not for today) My friend was able to prove with his GPS records exactly when and where his trucks were and so eliminated any concessions on his part.

At a trade expo we looked at the jobclock electonic time keeper. Their pitch is to recapture those lost minutes mentioned above. We thought about it for over a month, and wound up replacing the employees who it really would have affected.



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[Deleted User]

Let me play Devil's advocate for a minute and ask this question. Just because the van is at the job site, does it mean that any work is being done? The next step once you realize that GPS is a pretty limited control mechanism with many ways to circumvent the goals of the business owner, you will come to the conclusion that the hardhat camera has more benefits. You can opt for the additional biometric scan feature that has wireless communications with the hardhat that will give you beats per minute, grains of expelled body moisture, and brain wave activity. These features allow realtime monitoring and eliminates the employee/cyborg's ability to remove the hardhat and position it to look as though they are really working. So now you won't have any customers calling up complaining that the boiler is still sitting there in the crate and the guys left two days a go(I know that's a really common problem). This is not science fiction guys - it is science future.

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Steamhead (in transit)

This discussion reminds me

of when we first got drivers' licenses, and our parents set rules regarding our use of their vehicles. That made for a lot of friction. But since most of us were juveniles (under 18) at that time, our parents were legally responsible for everything we did- therefore, they were doing their jobs. Knowing how many of us were as teenagers, that was a pretty big job, especially since our parents didn't have the technology we have now.

The same situation exists here. Those who own the companies we work for are legally responsible for their employees' actions, so they set rules and policies and monitor for compliance. They're doing their jobs, as they have the right and responsibility to.

Pretty much any company in any business has such rules and policies. If you work in an office, for example, your company likely has policies regarding use of phones, computers etc., and that the fact that you work there means you expressly consent to being monitored to ensure compliance.

The Fourth Amendment doesn't apply here. It only specifies things the government is prohibited from doing. That doesn't seem to bother this administration- don't get me started on that.

Bottom line: they bear the responsibility, so they make the rules. It's a responsibility rather than a trust issue. This applies to teenagers and employees.

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Leo_13

C Schenk's Post

C Schenk said, "At a trade expo we looked at the jobclock electonic time keeper. Their pitch is to recapture those lost minutes mentioned above. We thought about it for over a month, and wound up replacing the employees who it really would have affected."

This is what dickle$$ bosses need to learn. Electronic gimmicks cause problems. The guy who went to church every morning, his boss was a jerk making a point in front of everyone. If you are a boss deal with the problem children directly. We had a guy smelling of pot everytime he came back from a potty break. We went to the boss and said this has to stop. In less than a week the guy was gone, laid off not to be rehired. Now I was one who went to the boss but I am still against GPS or any other type of monitor. Have me call in when I am done, no problem. From my police days I still have the habit of keeping a log of all my stops and I time it to 15 minute incriments. Often the boss will misplace a job slip and will call me and ask what I logged for a given job. I keep the logs at least 6 months. Efficiency can breed efficiency. Game playing can breed game playing.

Leo

Techman

GPS stuff again

Steamhead,right to the point!Those people who are against GPS makes me wonder how they feel about the MANDATORY truck inventory check. Is that a trust issue also?And filling out a detailed service invoice with a FULL parts list,is that also a lack of trust issue?

JohnNY

Leo

You seem like the model employee.

Using terms like "dickless bosses" while ratting on your fellow employees and then bragging about it on the internet..you're the personality profile for why GPS is necessary in some cases.

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