power gas burners

Robert O'Brien

the SU uses a CW motor.I'm not sure what size frame

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Jim_83

power gas burner

I'm looking at a gas/oil 3 pass boiler. Steamhead recommended the Solaia and tt that is certified with Beckett or Riello oil burners as well as the HeatWise SU power gas burner.

I currently have a Carlin oil burner and it seems as though any oil company I call knows how to service the burner and has spare parts on the truck.

My oil dealer tells me the gas power burners are trouble to set up and service.

I don’t know anyone in my area that has a power gas burner. Can you tell me the power gas burner’s reliability, ease of setup and ease of repair compared to an oil burner? I don’t want something installed that can’t be serviced easily.

Which power gas burner do you prefer?

Thank you for your advice.

Robert O'Brien

Easier

than the equivalent oil burner.Gas valves,controls,ignitors,motors etc. are readily available for all of these.I wouldn't hesitate to use either Riello,Heatwise or Carlin

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Steamhead (in transit)

We've used

the Carlin EZ-Gas (on the Smith G-8) and the HeatWise SU (on the Solaia), both were supplied by the boiler manufacturers. The SU has a more sophisticated adjuster setup for the head and shutter. The EZ-Gas has the usual air band. We haven't had any trouble setting up either one, and they do burn with less excess air than an atmospheric burner can. I think we have a total of four or five in the field at the moment counting both models, with another EZ-Gas going in next week.

One advantage of the EZ-Gas is that a standard PSC oil burner motor can be used as a replacement, according to the Carlin rep. Not sure about the SU.

We do stock parts for both burners, since none of the "supply" houses seem to want to. Look for an installer who does the same.

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Jim_83

What is a CW motor vs. a PSC motor? Is one type better than the other?

Unknown

Jim, as someone who

has installed over 3,500 power gas conversion burners over the last 40 years they are not difficult to setup if the installer knows what he is doing. I have not had any first hand experience with the Carlin EZ although I have one in my training center for training purposes. With recent modifications it seems to be doing okay. I have put in quit a few Carlin G3A and G3B burners along with many from Midco. They are all great burners. In my area parts are readily available from several local suppliers.

If the installer sets the equipment up correctly the gas burner should parallel or slightly exceed the oil burner for efficiency.

Steamhead (in transit)

CW

means clockwise, CCW is counterclockwise. Either can be PSC.

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Robert O'Brien

Tim

I have to disagree.At equal inputs in the same appliance a gas burner will have a combustion eff. 1-2 % less than oil burner.Gas burners can't operate at the same CO2 as oil burners.

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Unknown

Robert the reason that

is often the thought concerning oil vs gas is due to the difference in ultimate CO2 for the two fuels,it is incorrect. The reasoning of CO2 has to take into consideration the fact that oil has a higher ultimate CO2(15%) than gas(11.7%). What this equates out to is in reality a 11% oil and a 9.5% gas are actually about the same.

I am not big on analyzer combustion efficiency as it is inaccurate. I determine real efficiency by meauring flue gas temperature, O2, excess air and CO. That and firing the oil equipment at its maximum firing rate to insure the best overall efficiency.

I am a real odd ball because I don't do converions the way everyone else seems to do them. We have some guys here locally who are doing two and three a day by the same crew. It is not unusual for me to take three days on a conversion. The cleaning end alone is a major factor in order to eliminate as much as possible the fly ash residuals that accumulate a year later after the gas flue gases clean the system (boiler, chimney etc.).

It has been my experience after doing many of these conversions on all kinds of equipment that the gas conversion cubic foot usage as compared to previous oil gallons usage was down at least 3% to 5%. I have actually seen when working with the gas company and they had the means to track behavior that savings as much as 30% were recorded.These were all calcualted on power oil versus power gas burners. The old atmospheric gas conversion burners could not match that as their excess air was too high. This has actually over the years caused people to say that gas conversions can not equal the oil, they were comparing the old atmospheric gas conversion burners with power oil. The atmospheric gas sometimes used as much as 40 to 50% excess air as compared to oil at 20%. There really was no comparison oil was always in that instance more efficient. In fact back then oil was more efficent than designed gas equipment. That all changes when you premix air and the fuel both with oil and with gas the excess air goes down the eff. goes up.

I have installed Carlin G3B conversions into two small 8 X 9 X 9 chambers fired at 120,000 BTU's set the O2 at 2% and seen the analyzer efficiency show 84% to 85% combustion efficiency. Company policy (GAS Company) would not allow me to leave the O2 that low (Carlin says that you can actuall fire them that low) so we had to set it to 4% which was company safety margin.Those two Utica boilers by the cards the oil company left on the job showed that with the oil the combustion efficiency was 78% on one and 80% on the other. With the 4% O2 I was still at 82% on both boilers.

I could site you hundreds of facts like this that prove my point. Testing is the real answer and then what is the consumption of fuel after the conversion. That is the real efficiency.

I actually have a chart that was printed in Fuel OIL News August (1980)Dr. Ulrich Bonne, Senior Research Fellow, Coporate Technology Center, Honeywell Inc. many years back that shows a comparison power oil to gas and the chart showed gas much higher, that was very interesting to me being printed in Fuel OIL News. It was based on cycles per hour at 50% of heating load, weather in Minneapolis MN.

If you want I will send you a copy.

[Deleted User]

Tim.

How about boiler gross output, oil vs. natural gas?

Ex: Weil 380

Oil Input 2.4 gph X 139,400 btus(NORA's #)= 335 mbh. Gross output 278 mbh. Eff'cy 83%.

Gas Input 346 mbh. Gross output 278 mbh. Eff'cy 80.4%.

Those numbers seem more definitive.

Agree about residential & single stage power burners. Do the basics. Use a combustion analyzer (CO a must). Not a problem.

Skip a step. Don't use an analyzer. Problems.

Steamhead (in transit)

Tim

I'd like a copy too, if you'd be so kind....

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Unknown

Sent Chart to

Steamhead and Robert O'Brien!!!

Robert O'Brien

Thanks,Tim!



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Steamhead (in transit)

Got it, thanks!

nm

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