Old steam heat

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the info. Anything further that you can provide would be greatly appreciated. This job is in Fredrick, Maryland, Hood College. As usual the system has been neglected for years, new buildings added, piping modified by whomever is the latest maintenance person. My project is to replace the distribution steam and condensate piping throughout the campus, but I didn't want to blindly replace it without understanding the whole system.

So is some line on the Webster trap supposed to be connected to the incoming PRV (of which there is one in all cases, but NOT the original) in order to "balance" the building. I didn't trace all lines, but there currently does not seem to be a line at the PRV to the trap.

After 80 years is it reasonable to assume that this trap and controls are still working. My thought is not, so is there something that can be used in place of the trap. Or do I need it? It seems as if the buildings are operating; steam coming in, condensate going out, buildings heating up. Or is it just not as efficient as it could be without the trap?

I would appreciate your opinion.

Mike

[Deleted User]

Why is this trap here?

I'm working on an old campus steam heating system (circa 1928). Steam is distributed to the buildings at 35psig and returned to the central plant via a vacuum return system. On many of the original buildings is a steam trap (see associated picture). Cast into the top are the words "Warren Webster Co, Camden NJ, 15 POS WP". The original building drawings (yes, I found them!, see picture) indicate that this is a "Webster Hylo Trap, with gauges and controls" (note on right hand side of drawing). Everything I hear tells me not to "master-trap a building" nor to put traps in series, yet here's one made for this purpose and called for in a reputable design. My Web research indicates that the Warren Webster Co made radiator traps and I can find nothing about a trap in this position. Does anybody know what kind of trap it is, what it does or how it does it?

Any help would be appreciated.

Steamhead (in transit)

Webster made more than just traps

the Warren Webster Company was one of the pioneers of steam heating. They had quite a few different basic system designs such as the Modulation and the Type R for residences and small commercial buildings, and various types of vacuum systems in larger ones. I've seen a bunch of plans for Webster-equipped buildings too, funny how I haven't seen building plans when another steam system was used. Maybe it's a Webster thing.....

What you have here is one of Webster's larger, more advanced vacuum-return systems applied to a central-station setup serving a bunch of buildings. It was set up to not only control the steam entering the building, but also the amount of vacuum.

According to an old Webster piping diagram book I have, the Hylo setup when used on central-station jobs had a pressure-reducing valve at the steam service entrance to the building, set to 2 ounces or so. The beam-balance and trap in your pics is the vacuum regulator. The vacuum pump in the boiler house maintained a fairly constant level of vacuum, and the Hylo units regulated how much vacuum was carried in individual buildings. This let them lift condensate if needed on its way from the buildings back to the boiler house, without running too much vacuum in the buildings.

You may also find more than the usual number of flange unions in the steam piping in these buildings. These were put there to hold orifices that balanced the steam distribution in the building.

I'll see if I can dig up some more detailed information on this old beauty. Meantime, look for the usual problems- bad traps, pipes that have lost their pitch, etc. Also, do you really need to run the steam supply at 35 PSI? Try cranking it down to the lowest point where it will distribute properly- you'll save a BUNCH of fuel this way.

Where is this job located?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ross_7

Webster

Frank,

I'll see what I can dig up. I have a Webster service manual circa 1946-1953, prints included. They were kinda anal about details, Haven't scanned too much so I'll let you know.
Ross

[Deleted User]

Ross,

thanks in advance for all your efforts.

Mike

Steamhead (in transit)

Mike, I'm in Baltimore

and could come out and look at it with you. E-mail me at steam.head at verizon dot net and we'll set something up.

As far as I can tell, there was no direct connection between the incoming PRV and the HyLo trap/regulator. Each one had its own beam-balance regulator. I'm still researching it though, but the basic idea seems to be that this system lets you run with just one main vac pump instead of one in each building plus the main unit. I would not remove any part of this system until we knew for a fact it was no longer needed.

It is possible to still get trap parts even though Webster went out of business decades ago. I believe Tunstall will even make replacement parts that they haven't made before if we send them the trap in question- have to confirm this though.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"