gas conversion gun burners

Dale

My company,like Timmies, did thousands of conversions in the 70's, as Tim said there is a learning curve, I have taken Tim's class on the topic and it is very good. The main thing that worries me is the gas burner on the oil boiler that doesn't gravity vent the gas if there is a leak when the valve is off or if the control doesn't work on startup. This past heating season we had several gas valves that came on main burner first or main burner and pilot gas at the same time. I would not want the liability of propane conversion from oil. So, on a modern boiler, unless it's rated for gas no gas. On an old oil boiler, test before spending money and clean first. I remember conversions where the poor oil boiler had several 5 gal buckets of soot removed before converting. You must use a combustion analyzer to get the most out of a conversion. I my state a conversion must have electronic ignition and a vent damper so the cost is too high for anything but a larger boiler.

Steve Eayrs_2

gas conversion gun burners

Have had a number of requests lately for information on converting their boiler oil burner, to NG. Don't have NG in our area yet, but its coming down the road someday.
Heard pro and cons. I know the price per gas is better per btu than oil around here. (about 40% better) So mainly interested in quality/efficiency of burners.

Wondering what the opinions are on doinng this to begin with, and what burners you like or dislike?. Or if you don't like gas gun burners at all?

My first answer is to get the best efficiency you can and change out the boiler with a condensing gas boiler, but some times the boiler is fairly new. Like one place has a Buderus 115-34, w/ oil, and done nice w/ Tekmar and all and would be nice to just change the burner out if I can find one that will run efficient.

thanks,
Steve

Unknown

It is also possible to fire

these gas burners on Propane.

I like the Midco, Carlin, Riello, Heatwise are all good burners. I have installed many Midco and Carlin burners. The end result with most in a fairly new oil boiler is around 80 to 83% combustion efficiency.

If you get in touch with me I have a manual I sell on Conversion Burners which is helpful if you have never installed one.

Steve Eayrs_2

Thanks Tim

Would like to get your book. Where do I reach you? How much?

Steve

Matt_67

If you are in Canada, you would have to recertify your boiler/burner combination. This usualy runs around $1000! This is why we don`t use conversion burners. We will replace the existing with a gas design. We would also redo the piping into a primary/secondary system as the overall efficiency is better. You don`t want to cool down the heated water by running it through a stopped boiler.

Unknown

E-mail me at

gastc@cox.net with your postal address. The cost of the Conversion Burner manual is $75.00 plus $10 Shipping and Handling as long as it is in the continental U.S.A.

Steve Eayrs_2

recertify?

Not sure if we have to do that on residentual, but believe I would have to jump thru some hoops on commercial.
This boiler in question is already P/S piping, done nice with injection pump radiant.

thanks, Steve

Matt_67

Residential or commercial, it makes no difference. A site certification is required. A new boiler name tag showing that the boiler is certified as a Cat 1,2 or 3 appliance, is required.

bill_97

Site certification ?

Are you saying that is required for the U.S. also ? I didn't see any mention of where these installs are located . And I've never heard of that requirement for the U.S.

I believe the Buderus boiler you mentioned can use either a gas or oil burner . A few brands specs either type of gun . But if you install a gas gun in a boiler that doesn't spec them , you might void the warantee . Just something to keep in mind .

Unknown

Site Certification is required

if you in fact change the design of equipment in the field. This means you would be required to have UL or some other testing facility come on site and test the design change. This has never been required on residentail conversions from oil to gas or coal to gas or oil. I have done over 3,500 conversions and never had any of them inspected by anyone other than the local mechanical inspector.

Commercial requirements vary according to whose equipment is being modified. There are obviously different standards for industrial/commercial equipment.

If the boiler or furnace manufacturer authorizes gas or oil then conversions are acceptable. It is a good idea to find out from the Mfr. what burner they recommend.

If they do not authorize you to make the change then warranty may be voided on the equipment. I have had that occur a couple of times on two differnt boiler companies. They did however then cover the warranty when I was able to prove that doing the conversion had nothing to do with the failure of the unit in warranty.

It does however behove the installer to be properly trained in installing a gas conversion burner. I see many jobs done by people who claim to be expert at the installation of gas conversion burners. They are however making high levels of CO and the boilers and chimney are full of fly ash, still have the single swing barometric installed and other interesting so called expert procedures.

Last of all carry a lot of insurance.

Matt_67

The hickup is with older boilers that are out of warranty and that are not 'Listed' with specific burner combinations. NFPA54 requires that the appliance be labeled and listed. The AHJ in your area can decide if it needs to be recertified or if the conversion is acceptable to them.

In Canada, our regulations are much more restrictive.

Unknown

The restrictions are

not that severe in the USA. As long as a permit is pulled and installation instructions are followed in accordance with the ANSI Standards for installation of a Gas Conversion Burner (Z21.8 2002) then in most states that is sufficient.

There are some states that are not used to having oil boilers converted that are apprehensive and need to look into the stnadards but for the most part they are allowed.

I once again want to emphasize that the installer needs to be a qualified gas conversion burner installer with proper training.

Steamhead (in transit)

Henry, does this also apply

in the Great White North to a boiler that is offered from the factory with either an oil or gas burner? One would think that if the conversion burner came from the boiler manufacturer, the boiler would already be "certified" to operate with that burner, and the conversion would not be a "design change".

Examples are the Smith 8 series (G-8 when equipped with the EZ-Gas burner), Biasi, Solaia, and I think some Buderus models too. These are all residential units.

"Steamhead"

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Matt_67

While the boiler is certified for use with several specific burners, it comes with a specific nameplate stating the input and which cat. By retrofitting a new burner, you would have to have a new nameplate to be legal in Canada.

Dettson have a nameplate that lists all oil and gas burners with wich they are certified.

A Smith would need a new nameplate with the pertinent information. Or, you could apply to the AHJ for a special exclusion.

Conversion burners is a dead market in Canada. I purchased one of the last Aero gas burner last year as a replacement. They did not have any in our area. The factory had only one. We replace the boilers no matter what their age with a gas design. The local utility's subsidies help in the installation of condensing boilers.

Steamhead (in transit)

IIRC

the Smith 8 series has a plate showing all the burners it is approved for- have to check though, we have two more going in shortly. Maybe that's in response to your situation. You really should check that boiler out, on gas its thermal efficiency is 6% better than the usual atmospheric. This would be a natural fit for your steam customers.

The Aero factory probably only had one burner left because Beckett bought the company's burner operation and was in the process of shutting it down. That's why Aero oil-fired water heaters have Becketts on them now. Prior to this they used their own burners, at least on units sold in the States.

And you say the utilities are actually subsidizing more-efficient equipment? That's unheard-of here- ours generally push the cheapest, least-efficient atmospheric equipment available so they can sell more gas and lock people into their monopolies!

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Steve Eayrs_2

Thanks for all the comments guys

I wouldn't even consider converting the boiler, except for its such a new and nice system. The owner recently has the option to use gas, and because of the current 40% operating cost difference, he wants to. Definitely would prefer to install a nice little condensing boiler.


Have all the testo and other test equipment, and wouldn't dream of doing it without it.


This job is actually a few miles op the road, (300 miles) but I believe it will be just a matter of time we will be getting gas in our area too.

thanks, Steve