Radiant Roof melt

Derheatmeister

Kitec used to offer a Black tubing Pex alu pex that was UV rated.this would work on roof melts off of the system via a exchanger of course..

Next will be Aluminium Plates stapled to the underside of the roof...

Any Roth radiant panels on roofs yet?

Has anyone any experience with prefabed sips ...
Say it is installed on the underside before the Foaming and the tubing is ready to be hooked up the the boiler/storage Tanks.?

This could be also controlled by zones.

How will the tubing react to the foam ?

How would one activate this? Tekmar? Any sensors out there? (Do not like the ETI ! Breaks down every year!)

On a dark metal roof..will it be worth it to extract the heat in the summer for Domestic hot water production? Guess it depends on the Exposure time/tilt or angle of the roof/ surface area/Color/Wind/ambient temp/Piping to and from the roof to the mech room..kinda like solar systems..??

Could this get so hot that the tubing cannot handle it?
even with the Circ going there could be a power failure!

Any Ideas? Thanks.Richard from Heatmeister

nicholas bonham-carter

to roof melt or not to roofmelt that is the question

wouldn't it be better to melt only the areas of roof blocked by ice dams in gutters and drains--especially in situations where the sun can melt the snow higher up [even at below freezing temps] but not lower down where the drain is?
might be better not to use too high a temperature as this would thermally shock the roof--nbc

Derheatmeister

Sounds Good,Yes we do not want to Waste energy..

Mostly i've seen Huge Ice damms on the North and east sides...

So can jack pay jill? And Or ,can one take the energy from the south side to the North side Via zoneing..? HM.

Derheatmeister

Nobody doing this?? I guess it is time to"experiment".

Paul Pollets

Alcatel Orbit Nexus

I've used the electric radiant cable made by Alcatel for roof ice dam meltoffs. It works well and is easy to install. I wouldn't reccommend exposed radiant tubing, no matter what the UV protection was stated.

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Derheatmeister

Thank you Paul.I am not going to expose the Tubing.

I want to install it or have it Installed in sip roofs prior to the foam .(Under the roof)

Just not sure if we shall use Pex or CU with Transfer plates.?

Or use something like "Warmboard"?

I just Think that even though most Electric Heat tapes are "self regulating" the operating cost will be higher. and they "break down" because it is exposed to UV as well also the ice seems to tear it off..

nicholas bonham-carter

roof melt

if the roof melt pipes are under the roof insulation how will the heat get out to melt the ice?
what about the downspouts--they will need to be melted first to drain the rest of the roof.
the electric roof melt cables i have used are armoured with metal wrapping and are very long lasting in comparison to the cheapies [which break in the winter inside the downspout with the weight of the icicle and really plug things up] remember most roofs have unused [in the winter] electric capacity in the form of a rooftop air conditioner power feed--nbc

Derheatmeister

The tube will be Installed Kind of like a "Plated staple up" or Like "Warmboard"/"Roth panels" so the Insulation will not affect the transfer capability.yes the down spout will need to be heated too. Just thinking that one may be able to "Gain" Energy from a good setup !

Derheatmeister

Oh i forgot to mention that if one take's a closer look at the Power consumption of these Heat tapes it is actually pretty high(5W to 6W per foot)Especially if one could "gain" some energy out of a system. Kind of like a solar system..

Metro Man

Der roof snow smelt

Acht-tune Der Heat Mistro! We started a bid just like you are talking about. Was going to use flat plate absorber plates in back side of metal roof, insulated, sealed, and plumbed to a non-pressurized glycol set up. Metal roof had screwed access. Didn't want to use plastic tubing. Job fell through half way through design (realized they were just pulling my chain). I have some used absorber plates that I could trade for some high quality Bier! Say Budwieser, Keystone, Old Milwaukee, etc.... None of this Grolsh, Heineken, Guinness, though... zero taste and way too watered down...

BTW - r u coming down to wetstock??

Metro Man

Derheatmeister

Jaaa i will bring a mini kegger of High Country bier

Just not sure which one!

I like the Dams EPA but their Lager is also good.

I will be there on Friday for the Wilo Class staying at the Hotel both Nights. Der Meister..

Kevin_in_Denver_2

High Country roof snow elimination

About a year ago, ME mentioned he was going to use warmboard for the roof sheathing on his cabin, in order to shed the snow off a standing seam metal roof. Since then, I've been thinking about doing the same thing for my cabin in Zuma. For the full time resident, controls would be unnecessary I think. If there's snow on the roof, turn on the roof pump for a couple minutes. If you have a sloped metal roof, you don't need to melt the snow. You just have to "slipperyize" the very bottom of the snowpack, and get out of the way. Whumpf!!Since my roof is new construction, I have the luxury of building the roof using Kevin's 4 rules for snow country roofs:1. No roof penetrations of any kind. Skylights? get real. Plumbing vents can be taken out the gable ends, right?2. No valleys ever. You can look around in the summer and see the problems those cause. Valleys would also cause the whumpfing system to be a snowmelt system which costs too much to run.3. Cold roof yes, ventilated attic, no,no,no! That means it must have either a SIP roof deck or spray foam under the sheathing.4. No downspouts, no cry. No gutters no cry. (Sing it to the Bob Marley tune)Yes, even at this altitude, this whumpfing system becomes an unglazed solar system in the summertime. It will do 100% of the summer DHW load.Pex-Al-Pex is fine for this application, since these metal roofs never ever exceed 180F

Derheatmeister

Whumpfing!

That's petty much the way a Zuma roof should be made...

But on most of the high end Gable/Valley invested homes that Whumpfing can be a big Problem.

Especially when its a couple hundred or thousands of pounds coming off of a roof that is 30 feet up, and it hits the Mercedes or worse yet some passer bey-errrr.

Hey that's great that your going to be at the Wetstock I'll see you there..

Kevin_in_Denver_2

Planned Avalanches

That's the main problem, when the snow and ice comes down unexpectedly. If you can control when it comes down, things are better.

Trying to melt it away can cause more trouble. It will freeze up somewhere unless you can heat the flowpath all the way to 3 ft. below grade. What happens that one night when the system fails at 2am? The flowpath plugs up and whatcha gonna do then?

It's not a trivial problem. Someone died this year trying to shovel off a roof. Sometimes you can't just ignore it either, like my friend who couldn't open her front door because the snow loads warped the door frame. I'm sure you've seen those instances where the flue vent or plumbing vent has been ripped completely off the roof by the glaciation effect. Because of the forces involved, every spring there's a new roof leak at the chimney flashing or fireplace flue penetration.

Derheatmeister

Peak one ! 12805 feet

Lots of whumphing going on now! I park away from the Roofs with the VW size Icedamms! Soon Peak one will "Whumph" too, I can "Feel it"(it had a huge avalanche last year!)

singh

Like this?

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Derheatmeister

I Think that's it

Yes thats it!....Can you extract heat from this?

How do you Comtrol this?

Does it make you roof last longer because it is cooling the roof?

Does it keep the AC (if you have one) from running as much?

Do you have more Information?

singh

Dawn Solar

Check out this link : http://www.dawnsolar.com/

Want I find problematic about this, is the high temperatures that can be generated on the roof, and if the PEX can take it.

But it does look like and interesting way to do solar, and roof melt.

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[Deleted User]

By Jove....

I've think you got something there...

Just guessing, but I think it would probably collect more energy than it consumes.

And Kevin is correct, as with ANY snowmelt system, you MUST insure proper disposal of the melt product.

Thanks for the lead Singh, and thanks for provoking thoughts Richard.

ME

Kevin_in_Denver_2

Biggest storm of Big year

The mountains are being hammered, 18" expected.
Great news for us skiers, bad news for snowmelters and shovelers.

Kevin_in_Denver_2

180F max

Dawn solar says that 180F is the max. stagnation temperature.

All the shingle temperature data that I've seen is consistent with that.