As for ME and grandPAH.... I believe... in closed systems

Stephen C.

oops.

Stephen C.

Stephen C.

As for ME and grandPAH... I believe... in closed systems.

I thought I better start another thread as you have sworn off the other one.

I am a convert unequivocally due to your longstanding and persuasive efforts.

Thank you,

Stephen C.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_10

seeing light at the end of a very long dark tunnel

Much appreciated.

Stephen C.

You are very welcome.

Stephen C.

Dekstrous

How about this as an Idea

While being an anti government in my business type of guy, I hope to see at the very least disclosure requirements on the potential health issues of open loop systems and stickers for the water heater for new homeowners that may purchase a home with these types of heating systems. If we can not enact policy to ban these systems perhaps a information campain would do the very same thing. No demand by the consumer = same result. what do you guys think?

Kevin O. Pulver_2

I'm with you Erik

Maybe they could just past cigarette warning labels on the tank! or get a big black magic marker and write:
"This system may kill you. Or maybe not. Maybe today, maybe next year." That should cause people to think.
Kevin

Andrew Hagen_2

Closed Systems

Will someone get sick from an open system? Probably not, but I am not willing to hang my hat on "probably not". If someone gets sick, who is on the hook? If someone does get sick, will they applaud you for saving them a few hundred bucks on a heat exchanger, or will they tear you to shreds for installing an unsafe heating system? I think we all know the answer to that.

The unfortunate situation is that the average homeowner has no idea what the difference might be between an open and a closed system. They give the contractor a "performance spec" for radiant floors and assume it will be done right.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for using...

common sense.

A little known fact. I had an open heating system in my home before I knew what was going on with leginella potentials. I wanted a cheap and easy system. I used 3/4" PB tubing, and did it staple up (GASP!!) below my kitchen floor. It really didn't work that well. I finally bit the bullet and put extruded plates in. In the process of removing the PB tubing, I noticed a bluish green slime that was coming out of my pipes.

I decided then that I would NEVER expose myself OR my customers to whatever it was that was growing inside of those pipes. That was step one of a long learning process.

The next step was trying to use a water heater as a "cheap" source of energy. It use to KILL me to be sitting in my office and hearing that darned water heater running ALL of the frickin time. So, being the ingenuitive kind of guy that I am, I cut a normally closed solenoid into the downcomer tube between the snap acting gas valve and the burner, and installed a tekmar outdoor reset controller on it. I did a FULL outdoor reset, and it STILL seemed like it was always running. BTW, at that point I was doing my DHW water with an ELM (early Bosch) tankless water heater, so I have experience there as well.

Step three in the learning process, I installed a Munchkin T50 boiler (Thanks Dave!) My fuel consumption dropped to half...

So much for using water heaters as a cheap "efficient" heat source.

Learn from my mistakes. And thanks for continuing to learn, and teach others.

ME

Stephen C.

Remarkable confession

Wow !

Out of curiousity. What is the the timeline of your exposure and subsequent enlightenment of the dangers of open systems?

I do not feel quite so awful now about the two open systems that I was completely in one instance, and somewhat responsible in the second for.

Your advocacy for safe systems is to be admired and applauded.

It is unimaginable, on any cost benefit analysis, to expose unknowing/unwilling clients to the known risks associated with open systems.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and first hand experience.

Stephen C.

[Deleted User]

I was warning people about it BEFORE I contracted it...

I was operating under the NIMBY principles. And lost.

The REAL reason I got self exposed was because I was trying to conserve energy (LP) so I wouldn't have to either pump my LP tank down, or have to move a full tank. In an effort to stretch the LP, I had my water heater turned down low. It has since been turned to 140.



ME

Toddid Goldsmith's

Opened or Closed

Opened or Closed system,what do you mean