Is itworth repiping an existing boiler?

Dale

Sorry but I couldn't get your picture to load today. I thought I remember seeing the gaspipe at an angle to get arround some other part and not correctly supported. Make sure the gas shutoff is easily reachable, about 5 feet above the floor and your wife can close it with one hand without tools. Good luck.

JesseS

My wife and I are buying a house that has steam heat. I read "We Got Steam Heat" and now that I look at the photo I took of the boiler, I'm a bit worried about the competence of whoever installed it.

The photo is here:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm144/JesseS111/piping.jpg

The boiler has both a supply tapping and a return tapping on each side. You can use either, whichever is more convenient for your situation, or both supply tappings. You're meant to plug the unused ones. The installation instructions recommend using one supply and one return tapping. They also give a configuration for two supply risers and one return tapping. But there's no suggestion that you would ever use two returns, like my boiler's installer did.

The instructions also show that if you do use two supplies, they should link to a common header and then connect to an equilizer that goes back to the return tapping. My boiler has TWO equilizer pipes - each pair of supply/return tappings are connected to a separate steam main, as if it were a separate system.

Of course there's no Hartford Loop at all (on either side). And to top it all off, it's all done in copper pipe. So I'm guessing this was put in by a low-bidder "knucklehead", or by a stingy previous owner who didn't bother reading the manual.

Now the boiler does work and the radiators do heat, so I guess it does the job, albeit less than optimally. But I'm wondering if it might save me enough money on fuel bills to have this system repiped correctly with steel pipes and a proper Hartford Loop, only one return tapping, etc.

Of course, with all the other mistakes the installer made, I have to doubt that the boiler is even correctly sized for the house. If I'm going to pay to have all these pipes redone, would it be worth just replacing the whole boiler as well?

Or do the costs outweigh the benefits and this bizarre piping is just something to live with until the boiler needs replacing naturally?

Thanks for your advice! I'm new to steam and to home ownership, so I don't have many reference points for making this kind of cost-benefit analysis yet.

John@Reliable_14

Try this...........

before signing have it inspected by a steam expert. Best time is now, so that if it's a problem you could talk $$ with seller to fix it right. With the housing market the way it is I'm sure they will listen. P.S. did one this past fall, that was installed in the spring and wouldn't heat the house. We had to rip out all that was done, and repipe the system to work. John

Bruce M_2

You would Probably Save Money

It would certainly be beneficial to repipe and maybe move this boiler. You should have someone who is a steam expert do this and discuss what modifications he wants to make and what you want to have installed. You might also want to send a copy of your near boiler piping picture to Dunkirk and have them reply to you. They may see something that you or others might have missed.

Long Beach Ed

Try This...

While I love steam heat, I help pay my bills buying, renting and selling houses.

As John said, in this market you may well get a seller's concession to fix the piping. Come armed with an inspection from a good steam man, preferably licensed,(not some house inspector) spelling out exactly what is wrong and how it does not meet the manufacturer's specifications. Unless you are already stealing the place, you should be able to negotiate a grand or two off the price. That will help toward fixing the piping.

You may or may not get a payback from repairing this piping. While the configuration obviously is wrong, the amount of efficiency you pick up may not be worth the work. Or it may be. If the steam mains pitch to the boiler, making this a counterflow system, this crappy piping may just work. The height of the risers may compensate somewhat for the absent header in drying out the steam.

It shouldn't be copper, but that's another story.

If it were I who was buying the house, I'd negotiate some money back and pipe it correctly in steel. I'd sleep better at night.

Dale

repipe

Yes indeed it does need a repipe. The gas pipe too. I "think" the boiler is the correct size, ie small. One thing I would do no matter what is to have someone skim this boiler, even if you don't repipe. I can not imagine the person who piped this knew or cared enough to correctly skim it. If you haven't already done so check you rads for edr and see for yourself. I go to their webside and down load specs by model number. Good news is you should only need "2 max. pipe, and copper is high value scrap. Even though it could be piped with one outlet I would use both and into a drop header to give yourself max dry steam and least turbulence. Main vents? Rad vents? good luck.

JesseS

Thanks

Thanks for your advice, everyone. Dale, what do you see wrong with the gas line? We need to have some gas work done on the water heater (the last segment to the tank was done in galvanized instead of black iron) so I'll make sure to bring it up. Good point about the skimming.

I didn't see any main vents at all, but I'll look again next time I'm at the house. That is something I expect to address, along with insulating the pipes. The radiators all have vents and are shimmed correctly, as far as I remember.

Brad White_185

Seller's Repairs

I agree, Ed (and have been a landlord at least, not to hold a candle to you who does it for a living). Just to expand a bit and sorry if repeating your points, but do resist the offer for the seller to say, "Oh, I will take care of that work."

I always had a policy that any found defects which could be otherwise a deal-breaker would be corrected entirely by cash.

Just to be more clear (on your point as well), a seller, even worse a "too motivated seller" will never have their heart truly in it to do it right if they are in charge of the repairs. They want to get out as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Patching a wall crack is one thing. Boilers and major appliances are another, IMHO. At best you will be into shades of, "I would have put the main vent there" and, "the equalizer drop elbow is too small", etc. etc. Who needs that?

I would get a price you can agree upon, three bids if you can from qualified steam practitioners and let that set the price baseline. If no time to get bids (and being respectful of the time it takes for contractors to prepare them), you may just have to punt. But make it a cash deal and you contract the repairs. And at least use one of the practitioners who helped you settle the price in the first place. It is only fair.

Yes, pipe it in steel and above all RTFM applies.

My $0.02

Brad