Zone valve or circulator for an indirect heater ?

[Deleted User]

Ron,
By the expandable board and put the indirect on zone 6 priority. We do it all the time with low mass oil fired boilers like the biasi. I think you will be very satisfied nice to see you trying zone valves. As a cheap upgrade you can sell a taco pc 700 outdoor reset control that plugs into the sr board.

bill_97

We'll be installing a 4 zone gas boiler soon

3 zones are heat and 1 is for an indirect . We'll be using a Taco 6 zone panel relay made for zone valves .

Is there any downside to using a zone valve for the indirect ? We'd use a 1 inch Honeywell sweat zone valve . If we use a separate circ for the indirect it will have a weighted 1 inch flow check on it . Which I'm thinking might restrict the flow as much as a zone valve would ?

kevin coppinger_16

Ron...

I have done this a number of times w/ a super stor contender 50...2 1/2 bath home...no complaints. I even did it once w/ a smallish utica gas boiler and a SSC 80...they never run out and that was w/ a 72" soaking tub.
it depends on how many people are in the house....

Ross_7

1\" Zone valve DHW

Hello Ron,
I've used 1" zone valves on DHW with priorty with no problems at all. I have the same set up at my house. I usually use Honeywell, Erie, or Caleffi. Mainly something that's a little quicker acting than the heat motor 571 Tacos, which are fine for the heating zones,but if there is a demand on the indirect, somtimes waiting for the 571 takes too long. Just a suggestion, and remember to play "Smokestack Lightning" by Soungarden in the background while installing this setup or you may anger the boiler install gods! :-) Good Luck!
Ross

bill_97

The PC700

is also being istalled on this system . Nice control and easy to set up .

I'd love to use all zone valves for anything over 3 zones , as long as we use the multi relay with it . Thanks Mike .

Robert O'Brien

Ron

The conventional wisdom is to use pumps but I have done this numerous times for various reasons and never a problem.

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bill_97

We're using the same indirect

with a Burnham Series 2 ? I don't know the gas model numbers . That is good to know that they have plenty of hot water . I'm pretty sure this house has 2 or 3 baths . Thanks Kevin .

bill_97

Honeywell

is the brand of zone valve we install . Very reliable , for the limited amount we pipe in . I'll remember to play that song in my head when I vent out the gas main . Funny you mention Soundgarden . I was listening to A-Sides today on my Ipod while I was at the sump , kicking a football for my Lab and his friends to chase down . He'd be great on special teams . Thanks Ross

bill_97

Robert

Yeah , I'm thinking the same thing . If you look inside a 1 inch zone valve , the opening seems pretty small . But when you look at how much room there is for water to pass inside a flowcheck , I bet the resistence is around the same .

Andrew Hagen_2

Cv

Just a note, many 1" zone valves have the same Cv as their 3/4" counterparts.

Rocky_3

Install tempering valve if using zone valve

I have been to far too many jobs where the zone valve has failed open and the hot water tank is the same temperature as the boiler. There was actually 2 lawsuits due to scalding injuries because of this issue. thats why I only use pumps for indirects....if the pump fails, all you get is cold water, not 180 degree water. Just my two cents worth.
Rocky

Bob Bona_4

depends

on the indirect. I assume you are using the OEM 007 for all four zones? Some indirects need a pump w/ a different curve to get r done.

I personally would use a dedicated pump.

[Deleted User]

I vote pump...

mass flow equals overall efficiency. Maybe only 2 to 5 % in your case, but with a series 2 every little bit helps, no?

Ron, I have to tell you. I don't miss wrestling with cast iron boilers. Not even taking them out. We hire that out.

When moving in to the job, if the boiler goes to the basement, we duct tape the boiler to the back of the apprentice and send him packing...:-)

When he gets to the basement, he sees the square on the wall where the boiler is supposed to be, and there is velcro on the wall AND the boiler. He takes a run and leap, doing a 180 degree twist, and sticks the boiler RIGHT on the money.... Lets see you do THAT with a cast iron boiler ;-)

I know, I know, no cameras allowed in the boiler room during construction. Safety thing, I understand. Same reason no ones ever filmed our apprentice doing HIS thing ::-) Only rumours.

ME

Uni R_2

Where are the small cheap circs?

So if there were smaller circs out there (for example 1/10th the GPMs of a 007) and any small zone could be be sized within say 50%, what possible advantage would zone valves have? They draw power but don't do anything to start the heat moving. The circ pumps while the zone valves all try to obstruct/herd the flow and then the actual flow of any zone is dependent on the other zones.

The smallest circ that I've seen are Grundfos 15-10s, Taco 003s and the odd Laing. Sad part is a 15-10 without IFC coasts more than a 15-58IFC 3 speed -- if you can find an iron 15-10. Anyway, if smaller pumps than these priced similar to 007s were available, I wouldn't see any advantages to zone valves.

Ross_7

Higher CV

I usuall pick a ZV with a higher CV (like 7)with 1" sweat connections for DHW (less restrictive), & if your'e prioritizing, which you are,the pump on the system is already dedicating itself to the call for the indirect. I haven't had any issues to date. JMHO.
Ross

hot_rod

What size is the boiler?

A high Cv zone valve should easily move 75K or more. That seems to cover most of the size jobs you seem to do?

hr

CC.Rob_4

been there!

Several years ago, I literally came within inches of plopping a 5-yr old into a bathtub of ~160F water. Only thing that stopped me was the greater than normal steam coming off the water. Didn't seem right. Checked it with my fingers and was quickly scalded.

A service tech had been checking zone valves that day and left the ZV on the indirect on manual open. Boiler was dumping into the indirect for about 6-7 hours.

Just thinking about this sends shivers down my spine. Words cannot express how scary that was. We now have a circulator on the indirect (for performance) and a tempering valve (for safety) on the DHW output.