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Onix

Derheatmeister
Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579
in THE MAIN WALL
Steve, what kind of Boiler do you have? do you check the Fluid?

Comments

  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579
    Onix

    I've never installed Rubber hose,Never will.What is everyone seeing with the "NEW" Entran.?? When I take Samples of the system Fluid it's always Ugly.Just my Opinion.
  • Don \"Grumpy\" Walsh
    Don \"Grumpy\" Walsh Member Posts: 184
    Long, long time

    Never is a very long time. I wouldn't be so certain that you will NEVER install Onix tubing. It happens to be very good for use in the properly designed application. I have put miles of it in snow melt systems. It is really neat when the concrete truck can drive over the tubing to dump without damaging the tubing. (Saves having to hire the pumper truck) Like I said in the proper application, it has a place in our industry.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579


    I rather hire a pumper truck and pay Double the going rate, before install this not even a GARDEN HOSE! Heatmeister.
  • Steve Garson_2
    Steve Garson_2 Member Posts: 712


    My place is heated with Onix and it works great. No noise or expansion sounds.

    Steve
    Steve from Denver, CO
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579


    How long now? two years? Three years ? How is the system Fluid? Premature deteriorating Glycol Yet? Expansion tanks? Any of this Yet??
  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
    Look ma, no plates!

    I sense you have had some trouble with Onix?
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579


    Yes, and only 15 BTU's Per Sqft.!!
  • Steve Garson_3
    Steve Garson_3 Member Posts: 10


    Sounds like there may have been inadequate insulation around the sill plates of the structure. There can be a lot of lost BTUs if the sill plates are not tight and well insulated.
  • Boilerpro_5
    Boilerpro_5 Member Posts: 407
    Funny.....

    I have a system in for 12 years now and no expansion tank problems, etc.  BTW, Onix is not rubber, but plastic.  It is unfortunate you had problems, but I have often found that the heating system gets blaimed for problems related to poor air tightening and insulation techniques.  Boilerpro

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  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579


    No, Siegenthaler Wrote a article on the Plateless Staple up Situation (Shakeout Time, May 2004)Maybe you can find it in the PM magazine library. Anyway it states that one can only expect about 15 btu/hr/sqft with a total floor resistance not exceeding 2.0 degrees F Hr sqft /btu . and in most cases up here in the High country a plateless staple up does not work with out higher temps, which sometimes exceed the max surface Temp and is not very efficient even with Modcon boilers!. A Plateless Staple up may work in a milder climate/ very tight home or with Sub. heat source,(heatloss will tell) but why even Bother?
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579
    Not our Problem???

    Nope I've not had or made these problems, some of my Customer have problems, And talking to Other heating techs in my area they are seeing this too... And this is not doe to bad piping techniques! We are seeing PREMATURE det. of glycol. Exp.Tanks.....Well I've seen this before!.In the beginning I would Reverse Flush these systems, install Rhomar. flush again and again until the system was clean !!! Then I would Install Glycol and a treatment also balanced the PH just to have the same thing happen again..! (Look's like dark coffee with lot's of iron in it)I've been Installing/servicing Heating system's for almost 30 years now and have not had as many problems with PEX,WHY? What am i Missing here? Heatmeister.
  • Steve Garson_3
    Steve Garson_3 Member Posts: 10


    My home has Onix staple-up on my addition which sits over a unheated garage. Surface temp: 85* with water temp at boiler of 135*. Floor is 3/4-inch plywood under 3/4-inch oak. Cathedral ceilings. Works fine as long as the temp is over 5*, at which point the baseboard kicks in.

    Granted, Pex would run at a lower temp. It's been seven years. We'll see what the future brings.
  • Darin Cook_5
    Darin Cook_5 Member Posts: 298
    There is nothing wrong with onix

    Proper designs, proper piping, proper insulation will ensure an onix system works. You MUST do the math!! Maybe in some circumstances you will need supplemental heat, but doing a heat-loss will tell you that. I have never had a room not heat that was designed on Heatway/Watts Radiant software. I have installed miles of onix installed out there. I have many warm and comfortable familes out there. If you want a radiant system where you can run the lowest temperatures then by all means run a plated/pex system. If a customer wants the comfort of a radiant system and does not have the budget for a plated system then by all means an onix system provides a great BANG for the buck!!! I do not see this as a right or wrong, or bad vs good issue. It helping a customer stay on budget and provide them with the excellent comfort of a radiant system and keeping my company gainfully employed.







    Darin

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  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579


    Darin,Must Read the Orig Post. The issues that I am seeing Have nothing to do with the BTU output. Pex or Rubber(Sorry Plastic) if you do not use Plates, Physics will only allow a Certain amount of BTU to be Transferred into the Living Space!(That is another Forum That should be Started)...........THE Issue that WE(and I repeat)WE are seeing ,Is SYSTEM Fluid...!! Are you checking it? And if you are, What does it Look like.? Maybe it's just a High country Thing! By The Way: Looks like fun, just "snaking" that Flexible "Tube", Must be much easier HM.
  • Drew_2
    Drew_2 Member Posts: 158
    Fluid Checking

    Here are a couple of PDF's that may help.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579
    Fluid

    Drew, Thank you for the Noble Imfomation. On these Situations have been Using Rhomar for Years Now..
  • Unknown
    Unknown


    onix is better than pex at plateless staple up.

    it's still not a great method IMHO, but it's not the same animal either. it deforms more so you get more direct contact.
  • BIG BILL_4
    BIG BILL_4 Member Posts: 1
    ONIX

    ONIX is made with 5 layers, the inner layer is cross linked epdm(ethylene,propylene,diene monomer)epdm is also used in bladders for expansion tanks and pump gaskets-we love it for staple up applications and snow melting (very easy to lay-out on stairs. seems maybe you are confusing onix with the entran II debacle-big bill
  • El Presidente
    El Presidente Member Posts: 3
    onix

    Heatmeister TFG,
    I have only done one Onix job and it seems to be fine after 4 years. The customer thinks it's "schnitzelgruben".
    ElPrez

    PS Thanks for the cap
  • Boilerpro_5
    Boilerpro_5 Member Posts: 407
    Have you talked to Watts........

    There is a 25 year warranty on the tubing. BTW, they are literally down the road from Rhomar, I understand.

    Boilerpro

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  • boiler man_2
    boiler man_2 Member Posts: 5
    expansion tanks

    WHAT PROBLEMS ARE YOU HAVING WITH EXPANSION TANKS ON ONIX SYSTEMS?INSTALLED A ONIX SYSTEM 10+ YEARS AGO AND NOT ANY PROBLEMS YET. TUBING BACK THAN WAS DISTRIBUTED BY HEATWAY.IT DEFENTLY DOES NOT PUT OUT ENOUGH BTUS PER SQ. FOOT.INSTALLED FIRST FLOOR SYSTEM IN A 4000 SQ. FOOT HOUSE AND HAD TUBING SPACING AND HEAT LOSS DONE BY HEATWAY AND WHEN OUTSIDE TEMP DROPS BELOW 10 DEGREES MAX TEMP ON FIRST FLOOR AROUND 60.DID ALL THE INSULATING RIGHT ETC.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579
    Boilerpro,Yes I had

    Yes, I had, they even visited (schwiene was the name of the rep),Just stood around saying nothing is wrong. Did not even want a Sample at first, took a sample after i force it on them. Never heard back...

    then called one of the head guys that ME had recommended.... never got a response back after multiple messages.....

    Customer got sick of it and replaced everything with another Contractor....end of story....Have ,and will run into it again....

    And maybe some of you Will to..Good Luck Heatmeister..
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