Buying US

tk_3

At what point do we start supporting USA jobs and stop supporting overseas jobs as much. I realize parts are purchased from overseas such as some heat exchangers and other parts are assembled overseas or Mexico. But look at all the other jobs we are supporting by buying American. What about customer service people, warehouse workers, truck drivers, marketing people, salesman, engineers, tech support and all the people I have not mentioned. I also realize there are people supported here with importing and marketing the imports also. The numbers a far greater with products engineered, built, poured, tested, marketed, sold, transported, supported through customer and tech services here.
You cannot tell me with all the boiler manufacturers in this country you cannot buy good quality products as efficient as imported products.
We see jobs leaving the country everyday, we hear about layoffs, employer healthcare diminishing, cutbacks etc. All this is affecting the American worker. I would rather keep an American worker employed than keep someone outside the country working. Understanding we need some trade around the world but we have sent them jobs, we buy some products for in our boilers but I prefer to continue to support Americans. As the dollar declines and unemployment increases what are you doing to protect your fellow Americans. For every purchase from overseas we have affected our brother Americans livelihood.
I say if boiler manufacturers want to open a manufacturing plants here and employ Americans to build boilers all the better, rather than just import. We have sent enough jobs overseas how about someone sending us some now as the dollar keeps sliding down. We have been protecting & rebuilding the world too long, time for payback.
Sorry for the rant but as I see more and more business pushed away from American products in our industry I have to ask myself why?

DanHolohan

Nice rant.

What do you propose? Isolation from the rest of the world?

tk_3

I did not say stop importing items we use to build nor did I say stop buying 100%. I am just saying support our jobs.

As I stated we are buying parts from around the world. We will never stop supporting other countries and their products. I just think not only in our industry but all industries we support ourselves some. Anything built here supports others but we still support ourselves when you look at all the people it affects here. If you call that isolation be my guest but I cal it support.

DanHolohan

It cuts both ways, Kamney.

At least as I see it. Suppose other countries decide to stop buying US products because by doing so, it puts their own workers out of business. What would happen to our economy then?

I understand your frustration, but I don't think you're seeing the big picture of how the world works nowadays.

tk_3

You are probably right. But doesn't most other countries dollars buy more here now? Buying from over seas would be reduced never could it be stopped.

DanHolohan

I think about this a lot.

Consider a factory in a northern state. The workers are unionized and making a good living, have been for years. To save money and remain competitive, the factory decides to close the factory, putting everyone out of work. There is no comparable industry in that town, and many of the workers are middle-aged and not able to get other work.

The factory doesn't move overseas, but to a southern state, a place where the mills once were but have now moved their work to Central America. The factory is able to get workers who are eager to work, perhaps even more so than the workers in the north were because those people thought their jobs would always be there. The southern workers are not unionized and go to work for half the pay that the northern workers once earned.

The jobs remain in the US and the manufacturer is now competitive. That's how the buyers want them to be. It's a US company that is fairly priced, and one that has abandoned US workers for the benefit of other US workers who are more in need.

It's complicated, Kamney.

kevink1955

Let's not forget the envirnmental issues. The US has made it very hard to manfacture anything here. Factorys are emmission regulated to the point that if a worker farts it needs to be reported.

DanHolohan

And not just the US.

Germany, like most of the EU countries, is very environmentaly aware. They don't allow pollution, but this article will give you insight into how they have handled the problem, and why China is now so dominant in the manufacturing of steel.

The world's economy is complicated.

RonWHC

Smoot-Hawley Redux.

Who/what was Smoot-Hawley. Mr. Smoot & Mr. Hawley were 2 not-so-distinguished Members of Congress. They introduced legislation that Kamney would approve of. Unfortunately, it became law and helped extend an economic slowdown into a decade long depression. Some historians place part of the blame on the Pacific part of WWII to Smoot-Halley.

As I listen to & read the news, the echo of Smoot-Hawley is once again audible. I can only hope those who espouse those views know better. You, Kamney, should hope so too.

Andrew Hagen_2

Competition

I think we may have met our match with China. Wait until they begin to develop their economy as we did 100 years ago. And China's development will not take as long as ours, because the technology is already in existence.

So what do we do when China is competing with us for cheap labor? Even more pressing is what are we going to do when China is competing with us for every drop of oil available?

In my opinion, we are in for something of a hangover from our almost single-minded mentality of consumption at any cost. Production is the only real way to generate wealth as a society. It's analogous earning more money than you owe. Energy will play a quickly increasing role in our economy, and we are also about to experience a level of competition for the world's resources like we have never seen. It will not be fun, but I believe as a society we will have to reduce our consumption to a sustainable level in order to continue to be competitive in the global economy.

"Buy American" isn't going to do it. In fact, I'm not sure it even plays much of a role. We buy what is available to us. Manufacturers need an incentive to "Produce American", but I'm not sure we really want everything made in America. That would be a little like marrying our cousins. Eventually extra toes would start popping up.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

Support the Home Team

I agree with Kamney, choosing to spend our money on American made products, when we can, has got to help the US economy by providing jobs and keeping the money here. Of course we shouldn't pass laws mandating that and we can't buy everything US made, but I feel like I'm doing my part when I Buy American. I know some others might disagree but I feel that when I get an American made product, I think I am getting better quality also. Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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Mad Dog_2

I feel your pain. Mr Kamney.........................

But I am afraid you're chasing after the horses LONG after they have escaped the barn. As many here know, I have gone out of my way over the years to purchase & Install USA products. And, it really troubles me what the future holds. That being said, many of our formally ALL-USA companies have begun to manufacture and "slip in" foreign made and in some cases - Communist Chinese - parts. As Dan says, this is a very complex problem. It is also capitalism at work. Don't forget to look around at friend and family members too....Americans - like anyone else - are always looking for "the deal." They practically wet their pants when they tell you how cheap they got this or that.at the stores. America and the world are undergoing HUGE changes, but we have to deal in the real world. I for one am not happy with alot of it, but I do have Genuine faith in America, her people, what we have given the world, and that we will ultimatley prevail economically and otherwise. I also find, for better or worse, that the average American consumer could care less if something is USA made or not. Does it bother me? Yes deeply, but we must adapt to keep smimming above the surface. I think alot of these changes have and will be a wake up call for us, and some some companies are getting it together. Have faith, do what YOU can to support USA companies and brace yourself for a rough ride. Mad Dog

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Leo G_101

Think about this

for a second. I was reading recently that THE status car for the newly rich in China is the Buick, made in NA.

I know of an exporter who supplies the Chinese market with Watts T&P valves for HWT. His lients in Hong Kong demand that they be made In NA.

Here in British Columbia, more of our forest products are being shipped to the far east.

Our clothes maufactoring sector has taken a huge hit in lost jobs, yet some of our companies in Quebec are actually expanding, because our EU friends are demanding that their winter outer waer be NA made.

I think that if you wait a bit longer, and as the "third world" attains more wealth, you will see that their will be more highly specialized jobs appearing in our countries.

Everything is cyclicle.

LG

Andrew Hagen_2

Tariffs

Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act

albandjann1725849

competition

Agreed. The global competition for resources is very real, it's huge, and it will only become more intense. It involves the continents and the oceans (and what lies beneath them). The potential impacts on the environment and human health are enormous. The total impact of accessing energy and mineral resources is going up at an alarming rate as the prime areas are depleted and more marginal sources are utilized.

Over the next 5-50 years, it probably matters more what we (society in general) choose to produce and how we choose to produce it, than who produces it.

As Dan said, it's complicated.

Home owner_2

The problem with free trade is when it is one sided. We buy from any country but many countries restrict what we can sell them. We should adopt a policy of balanced trade. It has to be a 2 way street between trading countries or we should not trade with them. We are selling our souls to those communist in China. I would rather see products made with cheap Mexican labor than in China. We could build up Mexico and South American economies instead of giving all our money to Communist China.

Steve Ebels_3

What goes around comes around

If our dollar continues its downward plunge, the US will soon be THE low cost supplier and manufacturers will want to locate or relocate here again. I would dare bet that some of the Euro boiler mnfr's are pondering thoughts like that as we speak. BMW and Mercedes saw the writing on the wall and put up plants here. As Dan alluded to, the plants went to the southern states, not to the auto capital of the world here in Michigan Our state is the last bastion of Big Labor. I wonder why the jobs left???? I wonder why new jobs are not coming in?

Larry (from OSHA)

labor rates

The jobs go south as you note because the cost of doing business is so much lower there. I have seen good companies move to Texas from Minnesota and then slide further south due to labor costs. I think I remember hearing about the latest auto workers contracts allowing new hires in at much lower rates and the unions taking over health care for pensioners. The times they are a changing.

On a more positive note, the stagnant economy in northern Minnesota is going to be getting a boost from new demand for iron ore. The taconite industry is being revived with at least one new operation revving up on the iron range. Something like 5000 construction jobs and 1500 permanent jobs that will pay well.

As we move forward, less and less will be like it use to be. The shape of our industrial economy is changing fast and innovation will continue to be the answer. No matter what the question!

The energy demands from third world countries will force change in our own land that we can't even imagine. The price of oil now will be considered the good old days before you know it. I don't know if the oil economy will give way to the hydrogen economy or something else and whether it will be us or our kids that see it happen, but over the long term, fundamental changes will need to happen if the American life style is to continue as we know it.

I just realized that my stream of thought has gotten a bit far from "buying American", but the global nature of economics can't be ignored.

It holds true in science and I think elsewhere that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Larry

Home owner_2

DanHolohan

Home owner

We don't discuss politics or religion on the Wall. This sort of comment only serves to divide people and hurt this community.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

John R. Hall

Referencing one of Dan's comments

There are many scenarios where factories have shut down and lifelong employees have been left with an unforced 'retirement' because they are supposedly too old and untrainable (sometimes by their own words and not necessarily true). Heck, this has happened all of the time in Michigan, which is mired in last place for economic growth among the 50 U.S. states.

But if there is a silver lining it is the fact that the HVACR trade is sadly lacking in qualified workers to fill service tech and installer positions. And since '50 is the new 30' older workers can go back to school or work in an apprenticeship to learn the HVACR trade and make a good living for themselves. There are fewer barriers to entry in our trade than many other professions, too. The problem is that as a whole, the HVACR trade does a poor job of promoting the job opportunities available.

While we may be losing jobs to globalization, there are ways that that we can talk the walk and start new careers for displaced workers.

Bob_41

China is already....

Guys,

China is already moving some of their more mature manufacturing to LOWER cost countries like Vietnam and Malaysia. It's a moving target!

Bob

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

weak dollar

Your right Steve I was talking to a lady from England recently, who was visiting the US, and she said because of the favorable exchange rate they were all buying clothes and filling up their suitcases, because clothes were so much cheaper here. Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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Couderay

Ah the beauty of it

Yes sir I used to say the same thing, why is it the way it is. Times are bad and going to get a lot worse. Now is the time to do some thinking.Some jobs are never going to leave this country and getting one of them jobs is utmost importance. Yes sir them baby boomers really screwed it up this time. They sold are soul. Took while the taking was good, horray for me @%#!$& everyone else. When people have this attitude it can only get worse.If ya can't beat em might as well join them.