Are these boilers leaking?

BobAuerbach

I used an old b&w camera and connected it to our security system. I’ve used a webcam with a old laptop to catch other problems. It’s very helpful in situations where you’d have to stand around for hours watching and waiting.

Thanks.

BobAuerbach

I'm looking for some expert advice and was told The Wall is the place to go. My company purchased two Peerless TC-12's last year, which now have a white crust on most of the lower port connections. We had a lab test it and the result was predominantly Sodium Carbonate. The water is treated with a softener, ph is 7.8 and very little makeup is used. The contractors looked at them and said that the boilers are leaching something and not leaking. My 25-year experience tells me they're leaking. I appreciate any professional advice and thanks in advance.

Bruce Stevens_2

Symantics

to leach means to carry a soluble mineral via the transporting agent water.

DJ_5

Condensing?

I am no expert, but does the unit sweat? It may not even need to sweat alot, but if they keep the salt pellets or laundry detergent nearby and it is pulled into the burner and then condensed it would cause sodium carbonate deposits. But the boiler would not need to rain too much to cause this so it may be difficult to pinpoint. Let me know if I am up in the night here, not that I have to ask that, but its my 2 cents

Bruce Stevens_2

The first picture looks like leaking flue gaes

but the second looks to be aronud the push nipples, I am assuming the sample was from the second location?

Phil_17

leaking boilers

testing of the water inside the boiler and the deposits outside the boiler could establish whether they are chemically related and therefore how could that be if there were no leaks?
i suppose you could do a hydro test [was one ever done-many people skip this step] when warm weather comes and see any leaks that way.
nbc

BobAuerbach

Leaching Boilers

One of the boilers has evidence of condensation at the breeching connection and no chemicals are stored in there.

The first picture shows the leaking exhaust and white substance. Those 6 clean-out plates were originally installed too high and have been reinstalled properly. The samples were taken from the lower ports (both sides of each boiler) where the graphite gaskets are.

The test results of the water samples have not come in yet.

About a week after samples were scraped from the boiler, I noticed a re-growth of the white substance. I cleaned the area and set up a time-lapse camera. Two days later the camera caught what I believe to be a leak. It will only last about five minutes and then crust over. After a week of capturing video, it can be predictably seen when the boiler is alternated daily with the other and about ten minutes after start up. The following link is a one-minute video of a twenty-minute time frame, left is up.

Video Link

I really suspect the draw rods and lack of swing joints on the headers.

Thanks again.

Bruce Stevens_2

Draw Rods maybe

but I would suspect no swing joints as my first guess, as the boiler heats up it may still weep but not noticably as it would evasporate as fast as it weeps

Boilerpro_5

As soon as I saw the piping.....

I figured they are leaking. I have seen this before....welded header on cast iron boiler = leaks between sections.

Boilerpro

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Al Corelli_2

Header

No "give" in the header.

Something's got to give.



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

kpc_12

bingo...

no swing joints...kpc

seabee570

boilers

I assume these are hot water boilers? How do you know that very little make-up is used? Is the make-up metered? Why are you using soft make-up water?(if these are hot water boilers?)I would check with peerless about use of soft water for make-up and see if it is in recommended range?The ph does not seem bad,but soft water into hot water boilers is not recommended.

Unknown

yeap, that'll do it..

Without any swing joints as others mentioned, the boiler sections will "spread" and moan for more expanison within movement. I've seen boiler section "ears" ( where boiler rods connected to) cracked several places due to this piping set up.

Timco

Is there any reference to swing joints in 'Lost Art'? I have a peerless that is hissing and next week will be checking for a leak. Condensate appears on the mains coming out of the jacket, then hisses, but stops hissing and the condensate disappears when steam begins.

Tim

[Deleted User]

yes, swing joints

i've looked also and can't find a good reference/pictures anywhere

Unknown

Swing joints in LAOSH,

Dan mentions them on pg. 52 & 53. He doesn`t go into swing joint construction, but you`ll get the idea.

Home Depot Employee

With the tight space for piping this looks to have been a perfect application to install swing joints in to a “drop header”.

Al Corelli_2

Time Lapse!!!

Absolutely one of the coolest ideas ever!

I watched that three times. My wife thinks I'm crazy.

Outstanding Ingenuity.

How did yoou do it?
What equipment did you use?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

[Deleted User]

the time lapse

sure makes it look like a leak, dark 'line', to me, with evaporation, to white, following

BobAuerbach

System Info

These are steam boilers with duel fuel (gas/oil) modulating Power Flame burners running at 2 psi. and connected to a drop header. It is a vacuum system from the 20’s that heats half a square block of various sized office buildings. The total EDR of the entire complex is approximately 8,542 S.F. The F&T’s are blown out monthly and a trap maintenance program in place. The make-up is not metered but it takes about 6 weeks (with blow-downs) before it requires any. All of the buried mains have been dug up and sleeved. All in all the system runs fairly well with no major problems.

Thanks.

Steamhead (in transit)

That's not a leak...

...according to Propress.

Time-lapse video....well done, sir!

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"