Laars Mascot servicing in Seattle?

Brian Court

Thanks Bob. That's what I was afraid of. I'm one of those ambitious DIY homeowners that had the tools to get most of the work done but didn't follow through with the calibration. I've got a call in to Tim Reed (above).

Would you still recommend replacing the flexible hose with hard pipe? And do you think not being calibrated is the cause of the gas supply fault?
Thanks again...

Brian Court

Laars Mascot gas supply fault (E133)

We installed the unit last fall and it has been working perfectly until the last few days where I've been getting an E133 "gas supply fault" error message. I'm having to reset the boiler each time the thermostat calls for heat. Once it resets the boiler operates normally.

See attached photo of install. Anyone had this problem or know what the source could be?

Can anyone recommend a service pro in the Seattle area?
Thanks-
Brian

Unknown

Combustion failure

Is that boiler running on LP? Do you know what the CO2 in the exhaust was set to?

Here's Laars service centers.

service


Noel

Brian Court

combustion failure

It's running on Natural Gas. I didn't check the CO2 levels in the exhaust when I installed the boiler.
Brian

Nron_13

flow issues

I would check to see if this error happens after all zones open and then you are reduced to a single zone the flow rate change may be to fast for the gas valve to compensate for and then give you a lock out code , add a pressure bypass to the system to keep your boiler flow to its min recomended flow at all times , and check to see if the flow to your zones is enough now to keep the place warm when its cold , that will depend on location and type of heating your running

Paul Pollets

Gas supply

Most mod-cons require a 3/4" gas supply, not 1/2". I'd check with their tech services.

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Bob Forand

Clean your

It sounds to me that you need to cean the flame rectifier. It is removed easily enough and can be cleaned with emery cloth or steel wool. If you ran all winter thus far and the heat has been there, then I would not suspect the gas line. HOWEVER, the DHW will be affected by the undersized gas line and I would certainly suggest that the combustion efficiency be recalibrated. How does the boiler sound when it is igniting ? Is it a soft start or a hard start ? That is a sign that it may need to be recalibrated.

Josh_10

Well I would assume Paul Pollets would have given his # if he wanted the job so I'll leave that to him if he wants to.

Call Tim over at Reed Wright 206-283-1234.

Brian Court

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

The gas line is 3/4". The ignition typically sounds (for lack of a better word) like "poof". The last few days I have had to reset when error message appears and when the ignition catches, or stays on, after one or two unsuccessful attempts, the "poof" is noticably louder, as if there were excess fuel present(!?).

Derheatmeister

Yes E 133 is a gas issue..Does the "Maskot" (BAXI Luna!) Come with the Siemens Control...if so you can Adjust the fan speed on start up.How high This this install?,Gas pressure? Wat are your Combustion levels at?...HM.

Brian Court

Thanks Nron. The error code occurs after the boiler has been off for some time. When heat is called for again by one of the zones and the boiler tries to lite, the error message occurs. Usually after resetting once, the ignition will stay lit. On one occurance I had to reset twice.

I had originally designed a pressure bypass valve into the system but was advised that the Mascot's internal bypass would be enough. Last winter though, one of the Taco zone valves burned out. I hypothesized that there was too much resistance when both zones were open and the larger zone tried to close (the flow becomes audible as the valve is closing). Does this also sound like a pressure bypass issue?

Bob Sweet

Pretty sure the Mascot

comes with the Siemens controller, but I dont think it has the QA 73.
This may not be a factor but at altitude (here it is 5500' to 8500') the co and co2 numbers that are given need to be adjusted.

The length of the gas flex is suspect, Baxi likes hard pipe to the unit. I'd also verify the combustion analysis. Check the co2.


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Bob Forand

After re-reading

Brian, after re-reading your original post I realized that you have never had the boiler "set up". This step is necessary to correctly set the gas valve for your conditions. This boiler is test fired at the factory in Italy, BUT the parameters are much different. The factory has no idea of things going on at your place. Such as vent location, vent length, wind, altitude, etc. The loud poofing is the information I was looking for. That poofing should go away with proper set up. More importantly, you have probably spent more on fuel usage than it would cost to have it set up properly. I would venture to say that once you have called a pro and had it set up properly, your fuel usage will improve. And lastly, I wouldn't procrastinate too long because you are only causing more wear and tear on your internal parts of your boiler. It won't get better on it's own. Good luck...

Bob Forand

Gas supply

Yes, I would either hard pipe or from there use CSST in 3/4". You are only hurting yourself in your fuel usage by not bringing it up to 3/4". That boiler requires gas volume to produce the proper BTUs for heat and DHW. As for the problem with it going out on flame failure, I would not lean towards the size of the gas line. It has ran all winter long that way, although it worked harder than necessary. I would look inside the peep hole while the boiler is running and get some idea of what the inside of the combustion chamber looks like. I would pull the flame rectifier and clean it up. It is possible and probable that it is covered with soot from improper combustion. By looking in the peephole you may see "glowing" particulates on the walls of the hx.It almost looks like coffee grounds. If that is the case it needs to be cleaned. I have found this to be the problem and correction on numerous HT boiler while servicing them. Let me know how you make out...Good luck..

Derheatmeister

If it is not the siemens QAA73 does it have the (Reduced Fan speed on Start up and other Adjustments ,Which I've found is necessary to calibrate the boiler at high alt. Naturally in Conjunction with a combustion Analyzer... Maybe it is time to Call Teledyne Laars. Good luck..Heatmeister..

Brian Court

Thanks Heatmeister. Paul Pollets has one of his guys over here looking at it now. This Mascot does not have the QAA73 with outdoor reset. The fan speed does reduce once the boiler fires. We are at sea level here. The boiler wasn't calibrated initiaily so were going to do that now and see how it looks. Thanks for your comments.

Shmo

I as well

Anyone have this problem solved?



I'm at 7000 ft. elev. My Mascot does the same thing. The flame blows out attempting to high fire. E133 and after a few resets it works normally. It seems to happen more frequently when below 20 degrees.



What will be the draw backs if I reduce the high fire fan rpm down to 2000? I am at 3000 now. Do I need to recalibrate after a new setting?



Thanks for the help!

Paul Pollets

Solutions

You may want to post this as a separate new post!  Since you're at elevation and probably use propane, check gas inlet pressure before calibration. Any calibration must be done with a combustion analyzer and gas manometer. The calibration instructions are in the manual.  Call tech services if you have further problems. 

Shmo

Propane

Yes you are right. it is propane

Greggs

Laars Mascot 1.330

I have a Laars Mascot 1.330 converted to Propane.  I use the system for both radiant and domestic hot water.  Elevation 2,330 ft.



I've had 4 different boiler contractors try and adjust/tune the boiler but each time it the boiler still hasn't worked properly and it has gotten very expensive.  I live in Murrieta, CA  and none of the technicians in the area are familiar with this equipment.  I called the Laars rep and he didn't have anyone in the area that could help.



I just had a technician look at the boiler.  He cleaned the combustion chamber which wasn't very dirty and he used a combustion analyzer to tune the valve.  An hour after he left I looked at the boiler and now I am getting a E133 error (gas fault/flame fault) so now the boiler doesn't run.  He was suppose to fix the loud "poof" at start up and the loud waffling/whining noise I got when the boiler ran sometimes especially when it was colder out. 



He tuned the CO2 to 8.5% on low and 8.6% for high.  The manual said 9.8% and 10.00 but he said the efficiency was higher at what he tuned it to.  But now it doesn't work.



I am hoping someone may have suggestion or know of a good technician that I can rely to get the boiler tuned up.  Thanks.

Greggs

Laars Mascot 1.330

I have a Laars Mascot 1.330 converted to Propane.  I use the system for both radiant and domestic hot water.  Elevation 2,330 ft.



I've had 4 different boiler contractors try and adjust/tune the boiler but each time it the boiler still hasn't worked properly and it has gotten very expensive.  I live in Murrieta, CA  and none of the technicians in the area are familiar with this equipment.  I called the Laars rep and he didn't have anyone in the area that could help.



I just had a technician look at the boiler.  He cleaned the combustion chamber which wasn't very dirty and he used a combustion analyzer to tune the valve.  An hour after he left I looked at the boiler and now I am getting a E133 error (gas fault/flame fault) so now the boiler doesn't run.  He was suppose to fix the loud "poof" at start up and the loud waffling/whining noise I got when the boiler ran sometimes especially when it was colder out. 



He tuned the CO2 to 8.5% on low and 8.6% for high.  The manual said 9.8% and 10.00 but he said the efficiency was higher at what he tuned it to.  But now it doesn't work.



I am hoping someone may have suggestion or know of a good technician that I can rely to get the boiler tuned up.  Thanks.

Shmo

Error E133

OK I went through this whole fiasco.  It may not be the boiler.   I too thought it was the boiler.  It turned out to be the regulator on your propane tank.  Do you have a 2 stage regulator(Gray one) ?  If so, get rid of it.  I went through 3 of them.  It would freeze and pop the diaphragm.  Have the gas company change it to one red and one green one.  This works a lot better.    2 winters no problem and down to -10 degrees. 



How I found this out was...  I turned on all the burners (5) on my cook top full blast.  Pretty good flame.  Then, have the thermostat make a call to the boiler to make it fire.  Well low and behold. All the flames on the cook top are started to fluttering with a 1/4 inch flame.   



This only seem to happen when it got really cold out.



I am at 7800 ft elev.  The boiler works great.  I felt bad afterwards because I hassled Laars a little (well maybe more than I should of - and they did try to help through this forum) and it was NOT the boiler in the end.