Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
www.ihateviessmann.com effecting my business (The Youngster)
Comments
-
Value Added Service?????
If a customer is going to pay top dollar over and above what the competition charges they do expect something for their money. When Viessman got the initial complaint they should have contacted the local wholesale house and gotten things rolling, period. I am not a Viessman dealer, installer, etc. I have worked on a couple. But over and over again I have seen many on this site expounding on the virtues of German Engineering and the company Viessman in particular. I would expect to see so much more in the way of customer service. If I buy a BMW I expect more than what a Chevy will give but if I am disappointed I can trade it in for a Chevy. A heating system isn't quite so easy to change if one is unhappy. How often has anyone heard that's the Caddillac of tools, boilers, etc. In order to have that title it has to be earned and it takes work to keep it. This whole ordeal goes to show nothing is perfect and we are more often than not remembered for negatives as opposed to positives.
Leo0 -
Josh
How many Viessmanns 200 do you have out there?0 -
my lordy
Do as another man. in my area, ship part directly to contractor, have contractor state which wholesaler he will have send V a purchase order, then wholesaler is not cut out and everybody is happy.
purty simple.
the hooter0 -
this is some kinda good
*~/:) today i changed identities while away at work *~/:)
In Alaska, when we need a solution we just make it happen going with the idea that 'We only have to do the small miracles God takes care of the rest'.
60 70 below is not the time to take to wondering aimlessly in the cold. Unfortunately not everything we Want Right Now is available,so we take care of our needs and go from there.
it is not always easy honestly. sometimes it is a veritable hassle. Everyone has a story of "what they had to do when", hate to be trite buh 'Welcome to the club'.
believe it or not, some companies go out of business sell their parts or products to some other outfit. the parts are not available yet something needs to be done,...thats where our patience persistence and ingenuity help us navigate the treacherous waters. i think the discussion is healthy, at least there are some perspectives that are being voiced that may not have dropped down out of the ethers were it not for the idea that as long as we keep it civil you are welcomed to present your perspective...
i don't know whether or not you have met with these decisions in the past , for me it is somewhat 'Old Hat" i think i am hard to read...not always quickly Gathered , as it were.
it was interesting to me though , that sometimes when you least expect it some recognizable blessing drops down out of nowhere. i wonder if people stop and think, Wow if i only had dealt with that problem knowing what i know now....
0 -
We have installed a few. Up until November we were only installing Viessmann products on request. After being satisfied with the product we opted to go to factory training and we now offer them as an upgrade on every proposal.
Our local rep is great. He calls me at random every month or so just to make sure that I am being taken care of.0 -
Josh, so you are very supportive of Viessmann ?0 -
ok
that's fair. I knew I was stretching. I just got a chuckle out of how paying for the heaters and the added cost for the electricity was made out to be some sort of social calamity.
I have never heard of a power company paying for damages/inconvenience. Is this an isolated case?
My beef is that there is no established base-line to what should happen in a no heat situation. What does the manufacturer promise in this situation, what did the contractor promise in this situation, and what was the home owner gaurenteed if/when this situation happens? I feel as though there are no answers to these questions, so the 'anger leash' gets nasty when there are no pre-determined boundries.
I have had parts overnighted to me direct from all sorts of manufacturers (yes, through the wholesaler). I don't get why the wholesaler in this case isn't getting blasted.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
If it's urgent......
..... why would any wholsaler fax an order instead of picking up the phone? It sounds like the wholesaler didn't feel the need.0 -
comment
First, the timeline is only factual when a UPS or FedEx tracking # is provided. Have you seen this on the website?? This does not excuse the problem of getting the part to the end user in a timely manner.
Secondly, if you were quoted $10K more for a Viessmann, than I would be suspect of the quote. The Vitodens does not cost $10K more than the competition (any ASME rated condensing boiler). I do expect Viessmann to outperform the "others". They have met my expectations.
The company will have to address this particular issue regarding parts availabilty and expedited shipping procedures. I have no doubt that they will. Viessmann is very particular about satisfying their customers.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Cadillac, Lexus and
Mercedes dealers routinely supply loaner cars when their customers suffer loss of use due to in warranty repairs...and you are amused??? I'd hate to be your customer.0 -
trademarks vs free speech
Here's one example of many where an "Ihate" site got taken down by the trademark owner.
The microsoftsucks.com example is apparently an exception because of the owner was able to convince the dispute board of his "good faith".
In this case I doubt the domain owner could make a similar claim.0 -
not buying it
Tell me what differs between the selling chain of a Mercedes and a Viessmann installation? One purchase takes place in a marble-floored showroom, the other takes place when the working-class guy shows up in a truck.
The contractor has complete control over his pricing, and because of the "free market", the contractor must not be "that much higher" than the next lowest bidder. He's not allowed to get rich; market won't allow. When you buy a Mercedes, there's actual profits involved.
Yes, the talented heating contractors usually command higher prices than the non-experienced heating guy, but can you see how the free market can backfire?
This topic (how contractors come up with their price, and how stinky rich they are) could spin off in a number of directions, but lets stick to cars right now.
Unless I'm missing something, a Mercedes dealer has more money than a heating guy. And someone with money can afford to do such things.
I still think it's unfair to blame Viessmann for the issue. I'm cool with the fact you don't want to be my customer, fair enough.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Gary,
First let me say that I am a homeowner that has benefited tremendously from heating help, Dan's books, and the pros that post here. Thanks to all of you.
That said, in this case the homeowner did not go with the low bidder, did not opt for the cheapest solution, and did not have his cousin help him install the system on a weekend. All things that I hear drive professionals crazy. When the system failed 18 months after installation, well within the warranty period, he tried to work with the heating pro, the supply house, and the manufacturer to GET A PART. The pro tried a creative solution to serve his customer, and Viessmann squashed his efforts. The supply house was indifferent to the need, and since Viessmann appoints suppliers Viesmann should bear the brunt of the customer's ire.
For me, more discouraging than the homeowner's issue with Viessmann, is the attitude of some professionals posting here that the customer should sit down, shut up, and take it like man. Again, a customer that didn't go with the low bidder. A customer that has no problem with his heating pro. You have no sympathy for, or loyalty to the customer, but rather disdain. Amazing.
0 -
The price difference
The $10k price difference was for the combination of a boiler (about 220k BTU) and water heater (120 gal). Also, I was going to have to use 6 inch CPVC pipe for the Vitodens, which added $1800 to the price difference. The boiler water heater combo was much cheaper from Precision.0 -
OK
Thanks for your insight. As long as we're past the Mercedes thing, I'm fine to move on. My cell phone is on 24/7 for my customers. Thank you.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Yup...
... if a customer is in dire need of a part, simply faxing the order and hoping it will go through is not good enough. Does the wholesaler have a receipt from the fax machine that proves his time-line? Most faxes print out confirmation logs after each successful transmission. I would ask for that before I'd assign blame to Viessmann.
As I see it, once Viessmann was contacted directly, they acted quickly to get the part to the homeowner. Maybe not by Saturday (and we don't have all the details on that transaction either) but quickly, given the circumstances.
Could Viessmann have a better distribution system? Perhaps. The direct-ship system that has been quoted for Caterpiller works precisely because the folk waiting for those parts are willing to pay top dollar to get them the next day and continue the harvest, road construction, etc. Those businesses look at the bottom line and know that time is money.
That said, perhaps Viessmann can set up a web-site where parts can be ordered online with same-day shipping with delivery to the local wholesaler. That way, the homeowner and contractor know that the order was placed (and have a confirmation), Viessmann doesn't cut the wholesaler out of the middle (who is happy to get the margin without doing any of the work), and everyone goes home happy.
No one else in the business has such a web-site that I know of, could be another innovation for Viessmann, part of setting up a local contractor.0 -
Leo...
... all we have heard here is one side of the story. Viessmann employees are contractually prohibited from commenting here. I would refrain from passing judgment until the other side was heard. Our courts do that for a reason.
Remember the NYC HO who trashed Viessmann for having a bad Vitodens install (see the thread at HVAC-Talk). He came here and one of the Wallies remembered that the guy not only bought the system himself but insisted on hiring the low-ball installer personally. The Wall concluded that the guy got his just desserts.
I am not claiming that the HO who started the web site is lying, just that we have not heard the other side. Given my experiences with Viessmann, I am willing to give them (or any other party in a dispute) the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise.0 -
I,,,
don't want to get back into this again but if you read the guy's story and pay close attention to the timeline, the actions of both the service tech and the supplier and how long it took for them to actually order the valve from viessmann, you'll get the picture. Add that to the fact that he is in a relatively remote location and you'll see that it is a comedy of errors and lack of timely followup on the part of his installer and his supplier that led to his predicament. If there's one thing I've learned over the years it's if you FAX something REAL IMPORTANT to somebody else it's a DAMN GOOD IDEA to call them right after and say, "Did you get my FAX?" No, you shouldn't HAVE to, but it's still a good idea. Might have helped in this situation. Learned that from the IRS,,,the hard way.0 -
Constantin
Constantin,
My point is I have heard so much on this site over the years about how great Viessman is to the point it get's sickening. Given the rave reviews about the complete company this whole thread should have never been necessary.
I am not one who usually passes judgement without facts but the crap I have heard through the years to the point of almost a cult following it sorta cracks me up. Maybe it is a warped sense of humor.
Leo0 -
Yes, I would say so. One look at the inside and you can tell it's a notch above.
0 -
Fair enough...
Mr. Ebels and others have been dispatched before by Viessmann to address problem installs. But those problems were with the installs, not the equipment itself.
And we're all human. Errors are easy to make, sometimes hard to make up. There is a long chain of folk who make it possible to get a part out on time, and any broken link in it can prevent that from happening. A follow-up phone call from the supply house (IF they placed the fax) would have prevented the initial foul-up, etc.
As I see it, the contractor will probably be better prepared the next time something breaks because he/she will have made the investments in parts to keep folk going. Relying on a warehouse that is thousands of miles away and overnight shipping because the local wholesaler cannot be bothered to properly support the product is risky business. One bad winter storm and that part could be weeks away.0 -
Josh, So if someone called you on a Saturday @ 20:00 and his Viessmann went down, Would you be able to get them "Up and Running" that night?..HM0 -
Considering
the manner in which Viessmann controls the marketplace with such vertical and exclusive marketing methods; and their micro-management of who is "allowed" to sell their stuff, I find your :It's the wholesaler's inventory issues" rather fanciful.
Viessmann selects ALL aspects of who, what, where and how more than anyone out there with the possible exception of EK and Lenox.
This post could just as easily have been yet another 200-hit EK thread. For the purposes of this thread, the names are inter-changeable.0 -
did you know
that derheatmeister stocks three different boilers?
0 -
Not really sure where you are going with your line of questioning but, yes, we can fix a Viessmann Vitodens 200 Saturday at 20:00. Just like I can fix a Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110 at 8PM on a Saturday.
I spend a couple of months preparing for ANY line of equipment we install. I made sure that I have not one but two persons trained at the factory.
It is the responsibility of ANY good heating contractor.0 -
It is not \"effecting\" It is \"affecting\"
It is bad enough there is misinformation and bad information in this thread but bad grammar is inexcuseable. It may be interesting to read the appeal that Viessmann brought to the Canadian International Trade Tribunal. Viessmann was trying to import boilers from Germany as "parts" so that they could obtain a lower customs rate. The Canadian government did not agree with Viessmann and Viessman's appeal was dismissed. Now you may ask yourself what does this have to do with anything. In Viessmann's appeal they stated that:
"Mr. Prell showed the Tribunal pictures of a variety of components used in the construction of the gas train assembly and the electrical and control apparatus. These goods consisted of gas piping, valves, wiring, etc., as well as a control panel. All of these items, except the control panel, are purchased in Canada and all are general plumbing and electrical items commonly used in gas and electrical installations."
Here is the question: Are these parts general plumbing and electrical items? If so, maybe this valve is a common valve and people have been led to believe by Viessmann that it is proprietary and/or special. Here is the link:
http://www.citt-tcce.gc.ca/appeals/decision/ap96196_e.asp0 -
spelling and such
If you're gonna rank on our spelling, please at least proof read your own stuff before doing so.
Viessmann was tying to import boilers from Germany
Is it "trying" you meant to type?
Us 12-year educated people may not be the smartest people in the world, but life would be different if we all vanished.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Bruce
From your previous post:
If Viessmann does not require it's wholesalers to stock parts that can mean an unhappy customer. Does your wholesaler stock parts in any quantity?
"it's" goes with ---it is---. It's a contraction, which is shortening two words to make one word. I know because when I sent my copy to my web guy, he screwed up all the contractions... made me look like I couldn't spell!
"its" is used as a possessive phrase.
If you're not here to help us, what are you doing?
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
You are absolutely Correct
It is a possessive that should have been used. My error.0 -
Josh. That is great that you are so well Prepared ,also makes it easier to sell a good product. HM0 -
Loaner car
When I buy cars I make it part of the deal for loaner cars for certain circumstances that favor me. I don't care where they get it. One time the salesman gave me his.0 -
Spamming
So this thread reaches 100 posts 0 -
Did you actually read the decisions in those two links you posted?
I'm not trying to deceive anyone about anything with my site. As posted there:
This site is owned by an individual consumer who owns a Viessmann Vitodens 200 boiler system. It is intended as a product review site, and has no commercial intent or purpose. This site does not accept advertising, paid product reviews, nor is it attempting to sell anything to anyone.
This site has absolutely no connection to Viessmann, its affiliates and subsidiaries, nor to any Viessmann dealer. Viessmann, Vitodens 200, Nu-Way Supply, and Great Lakes Pipe and Plumbing are trademarks of their respective owners, and are used here incidentally for the purposes of product review. This site has no intention of misrepresenting any company for any purpose. The purpose of this site is a product review from a single consumer who demonstrably owns and has experience with the product reviewed.
Links from this site to Viessmann and Nu-Way Supply are placed for the convenience of the reader, and do not imply any relationship between this site and the respective companies, nor is there any intent to deceive the reader into believing that any relationship does exist. The URL "ihateviessmann.com" is not intended to deceive any reader nor compromise the intellectual property of Viessmann; it is a statement which summarizes the product review contained herein.
0 -
add my input to the ihateviessmann site!
I sold this product line EXCLUSIVELY for 8 years and would EVER install them again unless a serious overhaul in my neck of the woods takes place. They have an excellent line of products- pricy but high end. Parts have always been an issue. I have to keep thousands in inventory for the clients of mine that have these systems- hopefully keeping them from a 4 day no heat situation. I have had serioys issues getting Weishaupt parts from them. Cleinsts have been inconvenienced for weeks on end and endured countless service calls to isolate the problem ( Viessmann techs included). They are helpful at the US distribution center but their has always been an attitude that many of my clients have commented on unfavorably. I have such a laundry list of issues from the past 10 years, I can't imagine representing their line again!
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"There was an error rendering this rich post.
0 -
Take it to the top...
Jim, Harald Prell (Viessmann N Amer Director)posted his phone #'s in the "Viessmann Plant in China" thread and asked to be contacted for outstanding "issues". I'm sure he'd appreciate hearing from you personally.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"0 -
Prell addressed the issues in the china thread about were boilers are being made (to correct a misconception). But why hasn't he posted here. guess the silence here speaks volumes0 -
Paul:
I have tried this approach tewice in the past 3 years without a response. The new US manager seems better but the issues in my area will continue until their is a changing of the guard or some butt kicking from above. Their reputation in my area is not what is had been in the past. Too bad, I repect the engineering behind the product and have a large client base I still serve with installed systems. I assure yo that is your Viessmann business existed here, you might be looking elsewhere as well. Clients comments about their staff has been very unsatisfactory
Good to hear from you again
Jim
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"There was an error rendering this rich post.
0 -
As a long time Viessmann installer- some of these issues are definately inside, aggrevated by their local support staff. I have made issues known to the hierarchy and been mostly ignored. Labelled as a "problem contractor that just complains and expects perfection". I expect a certain level of prefessionalism, clients expect the perfection. I have called the main offices and usually can't even get a response
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"There was an error rendering this rich post.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 86.2K THE MAIN WALL
- 3.1K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 52 Biomass
- 422 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 90 Chimneys & Flues
- 2K Domestic Hot Water
- 5.4K Gas Heating
- 99 Geothermal
- 156 Indoor-Air Quality
- 3.4K Oil Heating
- 63 Pipe Deterioration
- 915 Plumbing
- 6K Radiant Heating
- 381 Solar
- 14.8K Strictly Steam
- 3.3K Thermostats and Controls
- 53 Water Quality
- 41 Industry Classes
- 47 Job Opportunities
- 17 Recall Announcements