Apples for Oranges

Keith_8

Sorry to hear that. Hard to objective right now. Give it a couple days and then evaluate what happened.

Make it a learning experience.

Something better will come along.

Keith

Derrick Ellefson

Opinions

I have a building that I have been taking care of for a couple of years now. Customer have lost of complaints about cool and warm areas in the summer and winter. The two story building was built in 1956 and is about 8700 sq ft above grade. Kewannee fire tube boiler with a dual fuel high (1.8mbh)low burner (1.2 mbh) serving about 30 cab heaters. In 1986 a mechanical company came in and added an air handler with DX cooling, hot water coil, and a stand alone VAV system. Later a building control system was added to try to tie every thing together but the customer still has to turn the boiler on and of by hand and there is no DA reset. The customer decided to lease out part of the first floor and all these issues kinda came to a head. The leaser wanted to add some offices and change some other walls around which needed state approved drawings. I called a desiner and a control contractor to review the building and after a carfull heat loss which came back at 638,000 btus, we came up with removing the boier adding 4 250 Trinagle Tubes reduceing total input to about 750,000 btu. Adding a Freq drive to air handler, new condenser and new VAV boxes with reheat. Everything tie back to a buiding automation system to reset DA and boiler temp both on OA. Everything was looking good until they got the price tag of about 190k and decide to get another price which is understandable. The other contractor Has decide to put in 2 310 Ultras and an individual "air handler" Im guessing furnaces for each floor and zoning with no reheat. Havet seen the total price yet but they beat me on the boiler work by 30k. Any thoughts on how to convince the customer to go with me. Sorry for the long post. any help would be gratly appriceated

[Deleted User]

happens all the time

The best thing you can do is rework the numbers. Does your local utility offer rebates? Can you give them a return on investment for your services? It is tough to sell a caddilac system to some one who can only afford a pinto. Maybe you can cut out some of the proposed work and make it simple.

Derrick Ellefson

I broke down each step into a differant proposal. Boiler, VAVs for tenant, VAVs for rest of building, Condenser, HW reheat piping, Desing work, and control contractor.

Keith_8

side by side

Derrick,
Why don't you sit down with the desion maker and go thur the proposals together? Point out the differnces between the 2. Even if he has a good understanding about how HVAC systems function he may not have the same knowledge about how different componants add $ and benefits to a HVAC system.

The owner may not have the pocketbook for your proposal. Are the tenants going to be responcible for the utilities? If so he may not be motivated to spend the extra money to put in the most energy efficient systems.

Partner up with the decision maker, you already have his confidence... you have been servicing his building.

Who knows the building, owner and tenants better than you?

Good Luck,

Keith

Derrick Ellefson

Lost the job to day. Was 26K higher than the other contrator putting less "cost effective" equipment. Dint even get a chance to explain why. Cant win em' all

Mitch_4

sorry to hear

but are you going to still maintain that "new" system? I have lost a couple like that (do not do large jobs often) and will drop the service as well. (one of those "I do not know the new system, , or the intent of various componentys and how they planned on addressing your complaints. I do not want to touch their design, all I know is it is not the way I would have done it, and that is why my bid was higher, I feel that my system would address the complaints. Sorry but please call the installer" kind of speech)

Your 26K may start looking cheap if the complaints do not stop.

Too bad they did not even get you to try and justify your pricing. well there is always another.

Derrick Ellefson

No, They can deal with service and complaints when the system isnt working

Mitch_4

ooorrrr...

you can quote the repair at 190K

lol