Radiant heating

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

A customer called recently and said their mud room/foyer feels 5 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. The air, walls and floors are the same as the rest of the house but the room did feel a lot warmer. The only thing different with this room is that they have a water cooler and heater that provides a few cups of hot water for tea and such, but the heat from this didn't seem to have any effect on the actual temp in the room, but it did feel a lot warmer. Any ideas? Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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jp_2

windows?

or lack of? did you measure floor,wall and ceiling temps?

MIke_Jonas

Flooring?

What is the flooring in this mudroom/foyer compared to the rest of the house? I have done several homes with tile in the entryway/mudroom, that I run just a little warmer water to. Did you check actual floor temps? If I can, I'll run a tile entryway up to 90 (no more than that). Helps with drying the floor off, and makes the house "feel" warmer when entering from a cold outside. Note: 90 d floor temp only if no regular foot traffic, like the RPA books will tell you.

stuart_8

hydronic cooling

i have hydronic under floor heating with a concreat mass
can i flush cold water through it as i live on a vineyard and i can irrgate the water out to the vines
i was worried about condensation within the concreate

Steve Eayrs_2

radiant cooling?

Yes you can have radiant cooled floors, and yes you will condense on the floor at a certain point. If controled w/ temps above that point, it can work. Depends a lot of the humidity of the area. A better option is radiant cooled ceilings.
As far as using irigation water?? Would most likely involve a heat exchanger, as most boiler systems are closed systems by design. I haven't done it but sure someone on this site possibly has.
Steve

Brad White_185

JP is on it

The Mean Radiant Temperature (MRT) is higher in that space in all likelihood.

One of the hidden efficiencies of radiant is the sense of being warmer at a given temperature than in a room without radiant. You are warming the occupants even before warming the space, thus the controls can be set a little lower. Five degrees is a "perception" I have to assume. Sounds high but then, comfort, even with standards, is subjective.

singh

Brad

Is there a way to calculate MRT in a room , in conjunction with radiant panel surface temps, on design day? And what would be ideal number?

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Brad White_185

Devan-

I think to save me a whole bunch of typing I should refer you to Robert Bean's healthyheating.com site as a great place to start.

There is a New Zealand-based site I bookmarked and always find handy:

http://www.meanradianttemperature.com/calculators.htm

The calculators are a great way to try "what-if" scenarios.

If I had to break it down to it's very simplest terms, I guess the MRT question really gets down to, "How far do surface temperatures depart from the desired comfort setpoint?" The ideal temperature to me would be the room setpoint of course!

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

The flooring is the same

As the rest of the first floor, the water temps and radiant are the same in the foyer as the living room, I don't think it is the windows either, because even though is is a small foyer there are two big windows in this room, roughly the same as the rest of the house. I was thinking yesterday could it be the small water cooler/heater?? Even though it is not giving off enough heat to raise the room temp., could it be giving off enough humidity to make the room feel that much warmer?? I can remember reading that radiant travels better with humid air. Could it be that the humidity makes it feel THAT much warmer? This is a closed room with one door going out to the garage and another door going to the living room. This room felt at least 3 degrees warmer, but my lazer thermometer says it is exactly the same as the living room. If the humidity feels that much warmer I think I'm going to have to insist on whole house humidifiers, I highly recommend them now, mainly to keep the hardwood floors tight, but people often don't do it.

Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

condensation

must be taken care of. I simply pipe the 56 degree well water first through a large fan coil unit, just like a conventional air conditioning system, then the slightly warmer water flows through the floors. The fan coil unit cools the air, removes humidity, and lowers the dewpoint so my floors don't sweat. Chilled ceilings might work a little better, but it is pretty awesome walking around on cool floors, just walk around on your tile floors barefooot now- thats what it feels like in the summer. Steven is right you need a heat exchanger to keep the dirty corrosive water out of your closed loop heating/cooling system. And you are right about irrigation it makes the system even more efficient, because for the price of running my well pump and one circulator I get 100% of my cooling and all the lawn watering I can handle. After cooling my house the slightly warmer water flows out to a 12 zone sprinker system. Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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[Deleted User]

Humm a ditty...

Like, "Camp Town races run all night doo dah, dooo dah, Camp races run all night oh blah ditty um day..."

Oh wait, that's what my PAPPY use to call it.

Humidity. That's what i meant to say. Betcha a steaming hot cup of tea that the InstaHot has the humidity higher in that room than other rooms...

If you are looking at the walls with an infrared detecto, you ARE seeing the MRT. ANd if they all "look" the same, then I'm bettin' on the tea machine and humidity raisin' the ol' RH.

ME

Derheatmeister

Bob,now that's COOL!!!!! HM.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

And raising the RH

Would make the room feel THAT much warmer, Wow. Thanks, Bob Gagnon

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Derheatmeister

Bob as per the checking of the humidity,you could stick a Data logger in that room that checks for that .I use one that is a combination of Lumes/Temp/RH ,Hobo(no I'm not calling you a hobo that's the name for it).That in combination with one that will check the cycling of the Water cooler/heater! if you are interested i can find the link.Richard from Heatmeister HM.