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The next generation of mod con burners will

Constantin
Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
in THE MAIN WALL
... is related to calculus, though it's best explained within the context of a control logic class. In my school, said class had a pre-requisite for calculus up through differential equations (i.e. about 2 years worth of calculus) to give the student a background in laPlace transformations (which are very useful for classic PID modelling).

That said, any good textbook on control logic should explain the elegant math and logic behind PID control well. Couple that with a software package like Simulink to practice, and you should be good to go. I learned more about laPlace transformations in one lecture of control logic than I had in the entire semester of DiffyQ. That was the difference between the hands-on engineering department, and the ethereal theoretical approach of the math department.

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,197
    be sporting

    this clever system

    www.ebmpapst.com/index/sid/5ECF78C2-2882-44B1-A0BF-134551AA9A63/nid/646E56A5-9161-4C36-BF67-9CE9EA72051C/b267fee20e10457ea2d8aa9dc578ba99.asp?gui_lang=EN

    I spoke with these folks at AHR recently about this valve that can sense and adjust to changing gas quality and external conditions. Adjusting automatically to NG, liquid gas, biogas, or hydrogen enhanced gas.

    And 10- 1 turndown really excites me.

    I know HTP has been working with EBM, always on the cutting, sometimes bleeding edge.

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • bob_50
    bob_50 Member Posts: 306
    Long URL

    Wow, to cut and paste that URL I had to replace the bearings in the mouse twice. The Lambda technology sounds like a good deal. I think Saab used that idea to control their fuel injection back in the late 80's. You sure are a busy guy. Imagine my surprise when I saw a hover-craft with your name on it in Pueblo,CO.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579


    About time! How about self adjusting air/gas mixture for the guys out there that are to cheap to buy a combustion analyzer.? or is this part of this? HM
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579


    Just checked out that site and it seams to self adjust for that too.!
  • Paul Rohrs_7
    Paul Rohrs_7 Member Posts: 173
    Now that's.........

    A flux capacitor if I have ever seen one.

    Very intriguing. If it could also be harnessed for DASBG (Day After Super Bowl Gas) then I think we would actually have something.

    Paul
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,579
    DASBG/DAS-GAS

    Coming from landshut Germany it burns Biogas too, Or as the Germans would say :Das gas(stinkygas)Or Arschluft.HM.
  • scott markle_2
    scott markle_2 Member Posts: 611
    Car talk

    The carburetor on my old cvcc (compound vortex controlled combustion) Civic had a mechanism they called a lambda linkage. Boy that carb was one complicated device. By the time honda moved to fuel injection those carbs had become incredibly tangled with vacuum hoses. Pre digital, era of complex analog controls.

    Bosh made the original fuel injection systems for Saab and Volvo's. I believe Volvo's of a certain vintage had a lambda symbol displayed on the front grill. It seems that heating combustion is moving towards the sort of control refinement that emission regulations forced the automotive industry towards decades ago.
  • ChasMan
    ChasMan Member Posts: 462
    Oil

    Id be happy with 2 stage on Oil.. I feel like I am burning dinasour blood inside of a cast iron dinasour.
  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928


    WOW! 10 to 1 turndown!
  • Uni R_2
    Uni R_2 Member Posts: 589
    IBC 10:1

    IBC Technologies claims to have a 15-150 MBH mod con boiler.

    http://www.ibcboiler.com/
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Hey Hot Rod...

    ... isn't this the same system that the Vitodens 300 burner already has? That is, no need to adjust for NG vs. propane?
  • fatty_2
    fatty_2 Member Posts: 54


    i have some understanding of modulating boilers - what does a 10:1 turndown mean?
  • scott markle_2
    scott markle_2 Member Posts: 611
    Dinasour blood can be hazardous to your health

    I like your Dinosaur turn of phrase.

    The german vito's have something they call "lambda pro logic".

    Anyone want to take a stab at explaining what the mathematical term means and how that relates to the self-adjusting properties of these systems that refer to it.

    Also any experience with an outfit called the Teaching Company. They do recorded college lectures I was curious about Calculus. The terms derivative and integral got my attention, as in PDI

    Calculus DVD: http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursedesclong2.aspx?cid=177&pc=Professor191
  • Brad White_185
    Brad White_185 Member Posts: 265
    10:1 Turndown

    In heating, 10:1 turndown means that you can modulate down to 10 percent of maximum input.

    A 100 MBH input (say 95% efficient or 95 MBH output) will get you down to 10 MBH input and 9.5 MBH output.

    In other parts of life, if you ask eleven women to go home with you and only one says, "Yes", that too is a 10:1 turndown.
  • fatty_2
    fatty_2 Member Posts: 54


    ah. so it, like the one kind lady, will have the opportunity to completely stop its cycling?
  • JJ_4
    JJ_4 Member Posts: 146
    Flashback

    Your reference to DiffyQ threw me into a flashback of a bad trip! I did get a "B", but after much confusion and even more studying. Comes down to it, my controls classes at Barber-Coleman put things all together.
  • Mark_46
    Mark_46 Member Posts: 312


    Scott has it exactly right. This technology is not new by any stretch. Automotive fuel systems (and probably others) have been using this for decades for emission purposes driven by more stringent emission regulations.

    O2 sensors (the device used to measure exhaust gas O2 levels) mounted in the exhaust pipe monitor the oxygen content of the exhaust for purposes of short and long term fuel trim. There are also upstream and downstream sensors. The downstream sensors measure the efficiency of the exhaust catalysts.

    Primary fuel ratios (rather than trim) are controlled by other inputs such as throttle position and rpm sensors, for example. These would be equivelant to an ODR sensor.

    This would be great technology to add to space heating systems. I say embrace it so we can get out of Iraq :o).
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