F0-5 on munchkin ???

bobbyg_7

check thermistors (proper resistance value to temperature)
(table in the vision 1 manual, or install manual)

If they check out OK, then it probably is a flow issue. Check the usual suspects (circulator - amp draw) or "force" the different conditions, while watching outlet temp on boiler.

That's a start.

ScottMP

We've got a customer

who has a munchkin that keeps giving us an F0-5 code. Thats a excessive heat code. Its spiking for some reason. Of course never when we are there.

The P/S loop has a 0010 and the indirect which is not off the P/S has a 0010.

Some genius installed a F/P for a spa with a 007. They tied in into the same control as the indirect so when the indirect calls OR the spa it shuts off the P/S pump.

We figured that was it , the 007 on a call for the spa could'nt handle the flow and it was spiking.

Noooooooo

We shut off the spa and were coming back friday to re-pipe and the owner says they reset it twice today..

F0-5 ??

Any suggestions.

Scott

PS: this had a new board and blower motor about three months ago.

Thanks

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Jim Pompetti

Size

What size is the boiler

J.C.A._3

Jim,

It's a 199.

Just to clarify...the circs on the primary and 80 gallon Amtrol hot water maker are Taco 0011's. (sorry Scott, but that I remember!) Chris

ScottMP

I could'nt remember Chris

Thanks for the input. Don't know if you knew that they called back and said with the Spa off it still happened.

Scott

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tim smith

Pull apart and clean heat for first thing

Vac, brush and flush out heat x, drain pan & trap. Get unit in good firing order then measure the sensor's resistance and compare to rating. Clock meter for proper input. Run analyzer on it. Tim

hot_rod

Has it been opened and cleaned?

what type of tube, or system is it connected to? delta T across the HX when firing? it could have a partially plugged HX from make up water?

hr

R. Swatton

Faulty Pump???

I had a 140M with the same M/O.
after many trips I found it was a faulty pump. It would fail and then re set itself. We had to replace both pumps one at a time till we found the faulty one.

Rich Swatton

ScottMP

We'll check

The Primary pump appears to work fine and as it we tested it we could NOT get it to duplicate the problem. The closes we got was running the 007 for the spa and then turning on the indirect. While both ran it got to 184°. We then shut off the indirect and she spiked to 204 and then dropped.

Very frustrating.

I think we should check the thermistors. The spa is obviuosly installed wrong and we thought we had it but shutting it off has made no change.

Scott

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ScottMP

Its attached

to an Amtrol indirect, 80 gallon ( I think. Chris ? ) Two zones of radiant and the spa.

When running the indirect it comes to temp and shuts off. With the radiant it never goes above 160.

I've watched it come up to 180 and satisfy the Indirect.

Scott


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[Deleted User]

I agree with Rich...

Hae had numerous dubble ought pumps have inadvertent seizures, but never when you're standing there watching it.

Another possibility is the time delay setting for the pumps which is accessible thru V-1 coding access (925). If it is too short or non existent, when the berler shuts down after a call for DHW, the residual heat in the heat exchanger could cause it to drift into the corner on the high side as they say at NASCAR. You could be up in the marbles with your yarbles hanging down...

ME

ScottMP

ME

Chris changed it to a fine minute post purge...

after a cleaning

after ohming

Scott

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tim smith

Check amp draw on both pumps

Check against specs when they are running near full temp. Maybe they are just close to overloading.

[Deleted User]

Visual of Chris ohmmming...

Sitting cross legged in front of the Munchkin, with palms facing upward, the room smelling of burning incense, saying ooommmmmmmmmmmmm, in ra-ha-gee, ooommmmmmmmmmmmm...

Am I close :-)

Look to the green motors Grasshopper...

This is one place where a data logger is priceless. You set it to take snap shots every second, and let er rip. You can then "see" the condition which causes your issue.

We just finished our first week of data logging a large radiant window (49 square feet!), and I was able to tell these guys exactly when and where they made adjustments. They were blown away with the accuracy.

I have every confidence that you will eventualy get it figured out. Especially with Chris sitting in front of it with palms facing upward...

ooommmmmmmmmmmmm......

ME

tim smith

How dirty was it?

ScottMP

ME

Its worse with his shirt off and the red magic marker .... never mind.

We'll see .....

Scott

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ScottMP

looks like air

We found the flate plate had a leak and after trying to duplicate the problem with John Sawyer's (HTP)help, we could'nt get it to spike. We decide to re-pipe the offending 007 to the spa and correct the wiring. Chris and John were about to leave and a big slug of air got caught in the munchkin and she went to 230 and BAM F-05. Four visits to get it to happen.

Man sometimes ...

Scott

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J.C.A._3

You said a mouthfull there!

6 people have sat and watched this thing over a course of about 6-8 hours....and wouldn't you know, it happens about 3 minutes after the boss walks out the door.

Luckily, I had a witness in John...and we were able to (hopefully) pinpoint the offending sequence of operation that made the code occur.

It seems that the wiring AND placement of the spa circulator are the main culprit. The water going to the spa/flatplate isn't being drawn through the air eliminator, and is being powered as a call for domestic HW...to boost the temp. and heat the spa a bit faster.A counterflow issue through the "closely spaced tees",and placement of the air eliminator seem to be exacerbating the air issue...and when the call for hot water comes...a slug of air passes through the heat exchanger just as the fire goes to "high".

It's fast enough to raise what the thermister sees to over the limit in VERY short order.

Like Scott said..a re-pipe and wire of the spa zone to where it belongs should solve the problem.

This install was done before there were good and sound drawings in the installation manual. I hope this serves as a guide to all that one of my favorite sayings still rings true.

Trust the factory instructions and drawings. They have FAR more time to mess with this stuff than you do.

If you can think it up....I'll bet it has been tried, and if it worked well it would be in the manual.(sometimes a better way come to them from the field...and it WILL be in the update if it works!)

Thanks to John Sawyer and Chuck Shaw from HTP. The stars aligned themselves today, and it all came together in a surprisingly quick fashion. Chris

P.S. to Mr. Etherton...I was wearing my hemp work clothes and I now have to kneel. My back can't take the lotus position long enough to get to that special plane.OHHHHHMMM Indeed! JCA

[Deleted User]

Good job Grass hopper.....

You may proceed to the next level...

I gnu yu'd get it.

OOOOOOooohhhhhhmmmmmm. That is how I've been dreaming lately.

"VOLT divided by OOOOOOooohhhhhhmmmmmm equals amps... Amps times snorrrrre....."


ME