dealing with a nasty rep

Jim Patterson / Orchard Valley Heating and Cooling

Any advice ( short of a lawsuit) to deal with a manufacturers rep that has a personal issue he takes to the extreme? He was at a client's house recently looking at a warranty issue on a boiler control / reset system that failed prematurely and took the opportunity to do some serious damage to my credibility with my client. Slander and defamation of character are 2 of the laws I know he sidestepped but even with a call to the US corporate office, no action. Can't even get a call back. This same incedent happenend 3 years ago and I just let it slide hoping he would grow up. That is apparently not going to happen and I am looking for my next step. The unfortunate part is that I specialize in servicing these boilers as they were my exclusive line for almost 10 years. The reason I dropped the line was because of this guy and the inaction his employers took to keep his unprofessionalism corralled

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[Deleted User]

Power of the pen...

As an expert witness, I can tell you that nothing puts the fear of LAW into a person more than seeing what they allegedly said in writing. As one of the judges told a defense lawyer at a trial I worked, "If it's not on paper, it doesn't exist"

Document your case, notify his employers, and send a copy to the manufacturer. It puts him/her on notice that you are aware of their improper actions and are prepared to take legal actions to circumvent future action.

What you DON'T want to do is publicize his/her name on a web site like this, because you then expose yourself to the possibility of a law suit. There's a right and wrong way of doing these things. Keep it private and vote with your dollars. Just make certain the powers that be know they have lost your "vote" due to this persons actions/inactions...

Money talks, B.S. walks.

JSSA

ME

bruhl_2

Hello Jim, just a HO here.
That's a tough one to handle.
First I would think that if you no longer handle the line, the company in question doesn't have you very high on the priority list. Maybe that's why you don't receive any call backs, even for a simple courtsey call.
Is there any other person within that company that you could ask to be sent as the company rep? Or does it have to be that one rep exclusively? This guy must have someone he reports to.
I would ask to be present during any visits/discussions that the rep might have with your client. Your client could request that of the company in question to insure everyone is on the same page with the issue. Not that you can get in a shouting match with the rep, but your presence might cause him to tone it down a bit.
As far as the damage already done, I would calmly explain to your client that you have years of experience caring for your customers and working on their behalf. That should be evident from your history with the current client as well as others. Combined you have an outstanding track record with many clients. Finally I would remind them that in spite of unprofessional and untrue statements from this rep, this client already knows you and your history a lot better than they know this rep with his obvious agenda. They should trust their better judgement and dismiss his untrue comments for what they are, BS.
Hopefully the situation doesn't occur often, as you said the last incident was three years ago.
bruhl

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)

what a lawyer told me

Or, more to the point - asked me when I was ready to file under somewhat similar circumstances. Turn back the hands of time more than two-decades......

Briefly, we were installing a five-zone hydronic HW BB system in a new home. The HO wanted more BB - insisted on it - all because he grew up in an old stone farm house where every available square inch of exterior wall was blanketed in active BB.

A customer I'd fired (richly deserved) was his dentist & he took great pleasure in denigrating our ability to correctly install hydronics. That seed of doubt blossomed into a full-blown nightmare. After I hired an engineer and obtained independent confirmation that our install was not only correct, it included added BB because I'd designed it for a max of 160F, not 180F, the HO remained unconvinced. Lots of blustery threats to sue me if it didn't work. I was stressing out to the max.

I wanted my pound of flesh! One of the lawyers we work for had been a steady customer for decades (still is today) & he'd built up a huge firm and he specialized in this type of law. So, I called him up and we met in his office and I laid out the facts.

He listened carefully and told me I had a rock-solid case. No doubt I would prevail - none. But, as a friend (he said) I have to ask you a few questions first:

1: Are you busy? (yes)

2: Do you have lots of work coming in and are you constantly bidding new work? (yes)

Then he told me a story about the firm where he'd first worked. After leaving to go it on his own, the former boss lawyer spread awful gossip around the community and did his best to ruin my client's business and reputation. "I had to decide if I was going to deal with him and keep looking over my shoulder to react to things he was doing. Or - I could focus on the opportunities coming my way and focus on my future. I chose to ignore him and concentrate on my work and my family."

"Now", he went on, "you are going to spend five years chasing this clown through the court system before getting the verdict you want. You'll be spending $20,000 to $30,000 and you might get a verdict for $10,000 to $20,000. He'll love giving you ulcers and that kind of money is chump change for him. As a friend, I want you to think this over. You're busy; you have lots of work; plenty in the pipeline. You need to decide if it's better to look over your shoulder or look forward and concentrate on your future."

I took the advice. As for his former boss? He got caught, by his wife, with his secretary on his desk. The community was abuzz for some time.

As for the Dentist? Who cares. The HO got mad at the mason one day and drove his SUV into a newly laid block wall to push it over. The mason shot his pet deer "Bob" that the HO fed every day - during the first day of buck season, which was the next week after the wall incident. The heat worked as designed and we made it through the warranty period without a single glitch. It was also a DV oil-fired boiler and I found out a few years later that the HO had adjusted it himself to save a few bucks and turned the side of his brick home black(G).

Kevin O. Pulver

Thanks Dave

You ought to write a book!
Kevin

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)

that job

alone would fill a book! The Ho came home one hot sweltering summer's day and discovered his wife had given away his precious iced tea to the roofing crew. He called her every name in the book and, we all speculated, even made up names that can't be found in any books. If I'd been her, he'd have moved to the other side of the lawn that day.

The mason got some mortar on the top of the oil tank we'd placed in the basement before they installed the floor deck (no cellar access). The HO told our mechanic to rip out the tank and get him a new one. Our guy said he wasn't doing that and the HO told him to get off the job site. "Only one person can kick me off this job site and you're not him!" As you might imagine, that led to a blue and blistering tirade that lasted for more than an hour. The interior of the tank was clean because none of the bungs had been opened. Yet another threatened lawsuit that came and went. The guy was seriously whacked in the head. That was back in the days when we still chased new construction jobs and thought we would only need to deal with the GCs! Even with all the hoopla, that job was profitable.

About ten years later, a new start-up PHVAC business owner (1-man shop) was bragging to me that he'd stolen one of our customers. Turned out to be the HO from He!! I just smiled inwardly. A year later I ran into the same braggart & asked him how he was doing with our cust he'd stolen? "He's nuts! That guy turned into a nightmare & I won't go back. He wanted to sue me for the work I did." The new guy went belly-up a few years ago.

A book? Nightmare on Elm Street revisited? Not even Stephen King can make up stuff this scary.

John Starcher_4

Sage advice......

....as usual, Dave.

It's important to choose your battles wisely!!

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)

nasty reps

A few years ago when ACHR was in Atlantic City, a group of reps were having a discussion in a center aisle while discussing their tales of woe. My name was brought up and they noted I am a "demanding ****". A friend of mine who used to sell Hilti tools just happened to be passing by and overheard the conversation. He circled the group and began taking down their names from the show badge ID's. That got the attention of one of the reps who asked him why he was writing down their names. So he told them I was his friend and he wanted to be able to give me their names. He said they scattered and offered me the list. Told him I'd rather not see it and that I probably could ID most anyway based on my holding certain feet to the fire when balls got dropped or we had to deal with defective products where those in the communication chain refused to help resolve the issues or for those who say one thing but do another. If that makes me a demanding ****, then I'm OK with the moniker.

I too vote with my dollars(G). Once you sell yourself, you can sell whatever products you chose and we don't sell the products whose reps leave us in the lurch or who behave as did the rep in the original post. Thank God for the Internet and this site that have opened wide communication, education and an ability to lift the fog that had long shrouded the chain of communication in a secret veil.

Jim Patterson / Orchard Valley Heating and Cooling

Thanks for your feedback

Thanks for taking the time to send me so much feedback on the issue. I don't sell these boilers any longer but have a niche servicing and repairing them. Unfortunately, this means contact with the corporation and at some point , this rep. I spoke to the GM of the US already and he agreed to set up a meeting and now he won't even return a call. As a contractor, my job is to protect my client's best inmterests when something fails- not the manufacturer. The client pays my bills, not the boiler entity. The lack of a professional approach to rectify this issue is the most painful part of the situation. I am happy to ignore the rep but whan a client calls with the next eposide if this saga, it doesn't sit well on my end.

I bet " plays well with others" was not checked on his gradeschool report card very often!

Thanks again- I appreciate your input

Dan- thanks for a place to network with other hvac professionals

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DanHolohan

Glad to be able to help, Jim.

Good advice here.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

Jim

Here's what I'd do if I wanted to continue servicing that brand.

1: Get testimonials from previous customers regarding how you saved the day for them. As ME pointed out, the pen IS mightier than the sword.

2: Be up front with the customer regarding the product issues and let them know you have better more reliable products available for when they're ready to get some peace of mind. Explain that the folks you do business with offer the same level of customer-service that you do and stress that that's one of the reasons why you have switched brands. Be ready with some ad slicks and a general idea of what that will cost - along with solid financial reasons why that's in their best interest - and you must believe whatever you're saying to the depth of your soul.

3: Be frank regarding the reps behavior and do so without any rancor. Inject a wee bit of humor regarding his bad behavior. Set up the conversation so that you & the HO are sharing a common experience - everyone's had lousy service from some schmoe who is standing between them and a resolution while being a PITA. Put yourself in the HO's shoes and be a good listener while you work to gain their trust and friendship.

Those who choose to believe the rep after your visit won't be worth keeping as customers. As Dan has often said: "Don't sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff."

Jim Patterson / Orchard Valley Heating and Cooling

well said

david:
well said. I guess focusing on the client and leaving the rep behind is the best option in the end.
all the best
Jim

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Jim Patterson / Orchard Valley Heating and Cooling

sounds familiar

I think I have the same rap. My allegiance is to my clients and my own integrity and when push comes to shove with manufactuers, I dig in my heals and make sure I am left standing ( next to my client). It seems like a lot of reps are cookie cutter pop ups that talk nice face to face and drive the stake home when you are away. I actually gave up contracting to work as a rep for 3 days ( saw the inside deal and turned tail) and went back to my love of contracting when I realized what it was all about. I know not all reps are created equal ( thank god for the exceptions to the rule) but it certainly seems like the good ones are few and far between. I'm glad to see there are other demanding pricks besides myself to keep them on their toes!!

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Jim Patterson / Orchard Valley Heating and Cooling

good advice

Thanks Mark.
Since I can't even get to a meeting with the powers above this "gentleman", letters from clients may be a great wake up call. I have already spoken to a handful that would be glad ( many eager) to set the tale straight. They have me listed as a pain in the a-- client because I let my issues be known. Many would never had come to head if dealt with at the rep level, but that got me to this stage.

looks like we will see how mighty the pen is after all!

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GW

Reps

Jim, let me know if I can help. I'm guessing this can be one of only a few people.

Your neighbor,

Gary

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Keith_8

sticks and stones

Sounds like a rep who is burnt out. If the home office is aware of this issue then I guess they have told you were there allegience lies. With an employee and not the customer.

I would write a short note to the home office. If they don't respond I wouldn't waste another thought on them or their product. Not worth the mental energy or physical time. Too much to do and not enough time left over to deal with this type of nonsense.

In the 11 years I have been on the sales side of this business there is only 1 product rep and 1 sub contractor that I wouldn't buy or use their product if it was free of charge. They are still in business and so am I. My guess is I'm not the only one with a bad taste in my mouth but guess what? Somebody must put up with their behavior, not me. Plenty of fish in the sea.

If the client is relaying the negative feedback that the rep felt obligated to vomit in their basement my guess is you already have the clients full confidence.

Smart of the client, who is going to answer the phone when an emergency comes up? The nasty rep who hates life? Not likely.

You believe in yourself, your family believes in you and the customers believe in you. Forget about him.

Keith

Jim Patterson / Orchard Valley Heating and Cooling

funny -you could have guessed either rep

Gary: Thx for the note. I have the same situation with the boiler rep and a lesser issue with the ct wholesaler. The boiler rep is totally out of control ( as he has always proven to be). When the homeowner calls you to complain about what was said, you would expect corporate to step in. I am going to urge clients to write directly and let the cards fall as they may.
thx again for the note
Jim

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