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AL_29 Member Posts: 44
Here are few pics of the 17 zone radiantheat job. We installed 6000' of stapledown on the first floor. 6000' in the basement and all the second floor baths are going to be onyx staple up. We have already installed 24 tons of pond loop and are getting ready to set the flow centers. I will post new pics of the flow centers soon.
Thanks AL


  • Superb job Al,

    I saw your other posting,,but I like what I see here.
    Very nice and pretty,,my hat`s off to you!!

  • Mike Dunn
    Mike Dunn Member Posts: 189
    great job

    Very nice work! Have you ever thought of using a T-drill? Instead of installing all those 2 x ? tees you could T-drill and braze up a stub.
  • singh
    singh Member Posts: 866
    Nicely piped.

    Any pics of the water to water HX, buffer tank etc..

    That's a lot of circs !

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  • AL_29
    AL_29 Member Posts: 44

    I have had three 5 ton water to water units on order along with a 200 gallon holding tank. They are due to arrive on the 29th of Jan. I am also wating for 2 1/2" Pro Press fittings to complete the piping for my geo pumps. I have 2 basement air handlers set but not piped. And I was wondering about that T-Drill tool. Where do I find them. Problem I am having is that everytime I turn around I am buying this and buying that. I haven't even bought a Flush Cart for my geo yet. And on this particular job I had to run 4 2" poly pipe almost 600' to the pond because I don't have a GEO pipe press machine to run 3" or 4".
    Thanks for the comments and I will be looking for more info on the T-Drill.
  • AL_29
    AL_29 Member Posts: 44

    I have already started another huge radiant job on a 27,000 sq' house. I lost the geo contract to the generals buddy but I doing all the piping for this project. I only have 14 zones and about 8,000' of snowmelt. I have never done a snowmelt this size so any input on this would be great. AL
  • wowie-wow-wow!

    ballpark, how many man-hrs?
  • Snowmelt with GEO??

    Seriously, or are you setting conventional physical plant for the heat source for the snowmelt system?

    Also, I would seriously recommend that you consider looking into WILO's Stratos pumps. Although your mechnical room photos are pretty to pump manufacturers, it is obvious that your parasitic cost of operation are going to be substantial, to say nothing of localized overheating caused by all the pumps running at the same time.

    You should also consider them for your loop field applications. The GEO industry has a lot of learning and catching up to do with the hydronics industry. For example, instead of setting one flow center per HP, and having individual loop fields for individual HP's, why not have one large loop field, and one large variable speed circulator, and put individual zone valves on the HP's and wire the zone valve in parallel to the compressor. Then, when only one unit fires up, it has access to the high (relative term) loop field temperatures, and the pump only consumes whats necessary to provide good flow to the operating HP.

    Like I've said before, these farmers (WSHP manufacturers) need to come around to our way of thinking. Hydraulics is not new to us.

    Neat pipe work though...

    What part of the country are you working out of?


  • Mike Dunn
    Mike Dunn Member Posts: 189

    This tool is the cat's meow. You use it to form an opening in a pipe then braze in a stub. After the stub do what you will ie.. press or sweat
    Here is the link: http://www.t-drill.com/t60.html
  • al_30
    al_30 Member Posts: 1

    Sorry I didn't clarify my snowmelt job. I am using Ultra 310's tied together. All my water to water units will be staged by a btu needed basis.
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,738
    Very nice looking piping

    I would second the T drill idea, tons of press tees and fittings that you could get rid of. Also like the idea of the Stratos on this job, could get rid of a bunch of pumps /watt useage. I have yet to use one although but looking forward to the right job for it. nice anyway, Tim
  • Good...

    Because if you were doing SM with geo, you'd need 5 times as much equipment per square foot served.

    Quck and easy rules of thumb as it pertains to snowmelt, and bear in mind these rules apply to my local environs (Denver, CO).

    Use 5/8" PEX of your choice.

    Keep loop lengths at 250 to avoid waste and keep head pressure reasonable.

    Place the tubing on XPS insulation, 1" thick minimum, and at adjoining edges.

    Use 6 X 6 welded wire mesh (prefer flat panel to rolls) and tie tubing at 9" O.C.

    Make sure of provisions to dispose of melted snow.

    Place an automatic control on the system, and back it up with two 12 hour twist timers. One for anticipating snow, and one for ignoring snow (fast moving spring storms).

    Go with minimal glycol required to maintain flow and corrosion inhibitors.

    Place sub distribution manifolds such that they are central to the areas being served as possible to avoid wasting tubing on home run circuitry.

    Run ModCOn boilers at 140 degrees F max. Stage them based on an outdoor reset schedule.

    Follow those basic rules and you should stay out of trouble. It is always advisable to check with experienced locals when sizing the appliances to the load. Here in Denver, we are good down to 0 degrees F outside with a 10 MPH wind, and estimated loads of 150 btu/sq. ft./ hour.

    Your milage may vary...

  • Rich L.
    Rich L. Member Posts: 414
    Idling snowmelt-ME

    Mark, Do you set up your snowmelt systems to idle? I know they're not nearly as efficient but they seem necessary on our commercial systems to be able to react to a heavy snow in cold weather. Location-East central Iowa.

    Thanks, Rich L
  • Just say no to idling....

    Rich, Unless the client could afford to burn real dollars on their driveways to melt snow, we don't idle.

    Instead, we ask them to be PROactive, and use the 12 hour twist timer to anticipate a snow storm. These systems work much more efficiently PRO actively, then they do REactively.

    We wire the 12 hour timer into the IDLE circuit, and maintain the slab at 32 degrees F for idle, and 38 degrees F for melting.

    Best of both worlds.

  • Rich L.
    Rich L. Member Posts: 414
    12 hr timers

    Wanting to consider myself "green" I love the idea of the 12 hr timer to anticipate snow. I'm sure the cost savings of fuel could be huge. The problem with my commercial customers is that it's "easier" to let the system idle than try to trust one of the maintenance men to remember to twist the timer, or who's responsible for monitoring the weather, etc. Or for that matter if it snows over the weekend and no one's around to twist. Love the idea though and I'm going to propose adding it for the fuel savings none the less.

    Thanks, Rich L
  • AL_29
    AL_29 Member Posts: 44

    Thanks for the snow melt tips, I like that Timer control idea. I also would like to know where I can find more info on the Stratos. I've never heard of them. I also like the induvidual pumps for the air removal part of pumping away.
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