EMERGENCY! irritated customer

[Deleted User]

and/or down time/too cold

and since both of you, directly or indirectly, mentioned the air vent, i did some reading, and sure enough, five sources say that since it's not a bladder tank, do not install an automatic air vent. and that the 3/4" port on the air separator should be piped back to the tank

"inlets into the return before and after the pump discharge".....yeah, i wondered about that also, and those are the lines that supply and return water to the chemical feeder tank

thanks for the input

[Deleted User]

pumping to/ pumping away combo system

i have only scant details; ie, i wasn't involved in this project, but i'm now being asked to solve the problem

we simply replaced the boiler/kept the original piping intact, and we are repeatedly, every 4-6 weeks, having to go back to bleed air from an unheating system. the customer seems to think it has something to do with the addition of the chemical feed tank that was added after the boiler install. and the only pump that was replaced is the return pump

here are the pics, and i hope you'll ask any/all questions, and/or say, 'what the hell?!

tim smith

Where is your expansion tank tied in.

Is it an atmospheric or diaphragm style? What was on there before for tank. Wondering if your sucking air on #79 there?

[Deleted User]

same atmos tank

and in it's original position in the 'rafters', and hard to see amidst all the piping up there. it has an amtrol atf-16 feed 'n bleed? the rpz is no longer operational, and actually out of the feed, and was replaced with the double check. #79, as in, bad internal check?

and yes, sucking air was my suspicion, but i didn't know where to start

Paul Pollets

The fix...

Here's what I would do: 1) Repipe a 3" Spirovent air eliminator on the supply header after the gate valve, not before. 2) Replace the expansion tank with a bladder-type, sized to load. In this state, an ASME tank must be used in a commercial job. Pipe the new expansion tank and the boiler CW feed) into the bottom of the Spirovent. 3)Move the pumps from the return to the supply header and change them to wet rotor pumps, if budget allows. 4) The existing return piping into the boiler has inlets into the return before and after the pump discharge. This may need to be addressed, but I can't see all of the pipe routes. 5) The existing pumps may be substantially oversized. I'd be careful about the actual GPM flowrate...and a correctly sized pump.

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tim smith

Where does expansion tank tie in to system

It is hard to see in pics. If pics show me correctly, the pumps are tied in off the supply & pumping away? are they not. If so, I might suggest you remove 79 and pipe expansion tank to that 3/4 tap. Then run fill to underside of that air scoop. That will allow the air to go up to expansion tank and your fill will be on the ponpc location at air scoop as long as pumps are pumping away. Just a thought for simplicity sake. Tim

[Deleted User]

yes, pumping away

and removing the 79 and piping to the exp tank is exactly what i'm trying to convey to them

and something else i'm not too convinved about; 010jpg, where the new b-valve/piping comes down and goes to the right, it continues over and down to the return piping beneath the pump 002jpg. and i think that return pump runs 24/7

thanks for the continuation