who is allowed to install hydronic heat?

Josh_10

Paul,

I'm a hydonic heating professional in Stanwood, WA. We serve the greater Puget Sound area.

The answer is "yes" you are allowed to install your own system. In fact most manufacturers will still warranty your equipment. Most not all.

In fact there aren't any licensing requirements period to install the heating portion. Just an electrical license to install the controls.

Though we don't recommend it you "can" install your own.

FYI I just finished re-piping a wall radiator job installed by a self proclaimed "professional", licensed and bonded today. If he can mess it up big time I will throw caution to the wind here and tell you to be careful.

I will be posting the pics withing a couple of days if you care to see what can go wrong.

Paul Archer

who is allowed to install hydronic heat?

My wife and i have 2090 square feet in Washington State. we want to install hydronic heat that uses radiators. we don't want under floor. we have friends who are plumbers and i can do some plumbing so we wanted to put the radiators and the pipes for the heating loop in ouselfs. then we would basically have the heating backbone. installed and ready.
this isnt a question of if we can do it right or not. i know that we can because friends who are helping have done it before. the question is are we alowed to? does it violate any codes if we dont use a pro.
just to be clear we are only talking about the radiators and the inlet and return pipes going to them. we would get a certified boiler enginer to install the boiler and connect it to the system.

Timco

You should go and pull a 'homeowner permit' for this, and have the vent & gas sizing / connection / relief system inspected, if nothing else. The inspectors do not care if your system actually heats your house, just that it will not kill anyone while it is trying to heat. That would also 'legitimize' the install by your city's standards. Look at 'modern hydronics' available from the online store, as well as Dan's books. Mod hydro is really technical, and Dans are easire to read and understand.

Tim

Justin Gavin_5

How much is your time worth

My 2 cents are this,

How much is your own personal time worth to you? Sure you can do it and have all the help you need but you are out for your own personal time as well as the "favors" you will owe for all the "free" labor you are getting from your friends. I have installed many a jobs and I can tell you this, Murphy's law prevails. What can go wrong will. And when you screw up something you have no one to blame but yourself.

Sure your system might be functional, but will it be quiet. Will it be sized right? Will it be the most efficient that it can be? You might think you have all the answers, and you may very well have, but think of the repercussions if you mess up. That is why us professionals charge so much is because it is our a$$ on the line and we know that there is always something that goes wrong.

I am trained as a plumber. I can plumb my but off but I hate it. I am a boiler guy not a toilet guy. And when it came time for me to change out a toiler, a task I could easily do, I contracted a licensesed plumber to do the dirty deed. Not because I didn't think I could do it because I have many times before but because my time is worth more to me than trying to save a few bucks. And I am so happy I did because his work looks 10 times better than what I would have done in my own house.

If you take on this project good luck but remember it will cost you 3 times as much to fix a screw-up. And it will take you at least 2-3 times longer to do it than a pro. Take your time multiply it by 3 and if you are still coming out ahead then be my guest and good luck.

Justin

Jim_67

I am a construction contractor. On my own new house I did basically the same thing that you are planing.

I had a pro come to do the heat load, tell me how much and where to mount the baseboard radiation, and give me a list of materials to buy and have on hand when he returned.

He said run the water and electric to the boiler room and for both zones stub off the supplies and returns as well as air test for leaks. He would make all the connections to the boiler (expansion tank, zone pumps, etc)

I did set the boiler and I vented it (sealed combustion direct vent Slantfin).

He returned and hooked everything up. Fired the boiler, clocked the gas meter, checked for CO, and bled the system.

He had about 2 trips to my place and about 9 hours. It cost me about $475 CASH and lunch. Going through my 4th heating season now without the 1st problem. Money well spent fo a comfortable heating system.

Paul Pollets

My 2C

I've yet to meet a homeowner who knew how to pipe a reverse-return system to radiators. Or the rules for re-valving radiators, or the difference between a steam and a hydronic radiator.....

Or the required safety controls...shall I go on?


We work with homeowners who want to save some of the installation costs. We have them cut and grind nails under the subfloor before a staple-up application.

There will always be a DIY market. Hi tech systems should be left to the pros. I fully understand the urge to "DIY". Unfortunately, the technical expertise is not found on the Internet.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

anyone who wants to

And, from what we see on an almost weekly basis, many who do should not do!

Having helped on a prior system certainly will help, but that hardly qualifies anyone as being savvy in hydronic finese. I'd suggest hiring a pro to help design the layout and piping schematics. Money well spent IMHO and I've done that for lots of folks locally.

As for inspectors ensuring safety? I'd sure like to see their qualifications and the check-list of items they're going to carefully inspect. If they're not checking combustion and all the finite details involved with properly venting the products of combustion, then you can't rely on an inspection to protect you and your family. here again, the hydronics pro is your best and most reliable source of inspection/protection. Remember this: inspectors bear no real responsibility for the inspection and, as a result, have zero liability.

Timco

Different cities have different standards and every inspector is different. Having said that, my local inspector checks combustion air, make-up air, back flow prevention, vent connector size, main vent size, what other equipment is connected to the vent, and gas pipe sizing, and relief valve BTU capacity & discharge piping. I think it is pretty thurough myself. You would have to agree that having an inspection may not be the only or best way to ensure saftey, (an analyzer is the only REAL way) but it will cover his buns to a point and as I said legetimize the install with his city.

Tim

Bruce M

Sweat Equity

Go for it. Do a btu calculation so that you have the correct size radiation for each room. You might want to post the type and size radiation you are planning to install. Also the type and size piping you are installing.

heatboy_3

Another 2 cents

In the wild, wild west, where I live, inspections are almost non-existitent. The only things any inspector ever wanted to see are pressure tests on the tubing, ASME stamps and valve tags. Yes, valve tags.

Here are a couple of pictures of a DIY project I was called in to look at because it does not work. It's pretty good looking, but there are some major issues keeping it from working. (T87 at .4 amps, 175MBH boiler and a 53 gallon indirect)

Now, let me say, I have seen "professionals" install stuff much, much worse than this, so I guess I don't see a problem with someone trying to do their own work.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

We'll soon have enough change for a meal(G)

Just visited one today. A fine example of how to ignore the diagrams and turn a hi-eff boiler into one that performs at efficiencies of a standard chimney-vented model.

heatboy_3

Yummy!

Can't wait for luch!

Is this a DIY or "Pro"?

Leo G_101

Paul,

have done a few of these jobs with my customers. They hire me for the consultation, i.e., heatloss, layout, inspection before the inspection, etc. In my contract language, I state that I have full approval of all installation, prior to the city inspection and cover-up. I charge by the hour for this portion.

Of all the customers that I have worked with in this way, it has been a lot of fun!

The boiler install is of course quoted, and if the customer wants to get other quotes, that is fine also. Some of these customers have become friends. I really enjoy these jobs, as they are quite interesting!

Leo G

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

unfortunately

Stuposedly a pro. Note the condensate being pumped into a bucket for the HO's to carry away and deal with. Not really much of a problem though as they only get about 1/2-gal a week.

Like having a race car and yanking all but two of the spark-plug wires!

Does it work? Yes. Are they comfortable? No.

Dealing on-line with another boiler/rad system. Burnham series 2 piped direct to an in-slab 1950's era system. No temp modulation, no boiler protection & the boiler's supply can't get up above 110F. System overheats & then goes cold - big time flywheel.

Yet another we'd bid too. Our price was, naturally, much too high. That pro has finally walked away & the HO wants us to give it a quick-fix. Can't be done.

Another by an RPA member that's too FUBAR'd to even post here.

And another, and another, and so on......

Some by HO's & some by Pro's. And all passed their inspection by the twp officials or third-party agency. Shives me the gits!

Steve Ebels_3

Paul

Are your friends plumbers, as in fresh water piping and drains or are they hydronic heating guys? The two fields are related only in that they both have water in pipes. Vastly different in how water is made to flow correctly in said pipes. No offense to them whatsoever but if they are not hydronic technicians you may be asking for trouble.

Paul Archer

who is allowed to install hydronic heat?

Thanks everyone for the advice. we have still to deside how to proceed. we are are not going to dive into anything until we have reasearched everything we need to know.
So far we do know our friend is qualified to install pipes for hydronic heat. He no longer does it for a living so let his certification lapse. hense the question who is alowed to install the pipes?
I have yet to find out from him if he is capable of designing the best layout of the system. however if he can't and all he does is put in the pipes we may consider as some of you have suggested, hire a hydronic pro to look at our home and design the system. Then we install what we can ourselfs with our friend's help. after which we get the pro back to install the boiler and hook it up.
Also for those of you who mentioned permits i am in the process of harrasing the local city autorities about what we need. i have not applied for anything im just asking them what we need to apply for.

Tom_38

Thats why god invented Sawzall