steam conundrum

kevin coppinger_4

I moved the drain to the equalizer, insulated all the run outs on the counter flow lines...and most of the hammer stopped. There is still a ton of sloshing in one of tye rads. That is probably oil or junk. I will skim some more! ty,kpc

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kevin coppinger_4

I just installed

a new steamer in a local home...old steamer had pinholes at the water line. Install went pretty smooth and then after the first day or so the hammering starts...The boiler is piped to proper standards. the one strange thing as the pictures show is the second take off header. It goes to two rads in steel but has no way to drain back thus the additional drain off the header. I tied it back into the return just before the Hartford loop (not sure if i should have done it into the other side). the main vent is now also spitting water (return in not plugged)...again not sure if this additional "drain" is causing issues....please give me some feedback..ty, kpc

ps...boiler has been flushed and was skimmed for at least 2 hours...(water looks clean)I added rhomar cleaner yesterday and will head back in a couple more days to flush and skim more. ty

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don_52

Two Flavors

kpc,

Looks/Sounds like the second take-off is counterflow,
which the info I have says it should drop into the
equalizer.

Sound like your pushing the water back up, by going
into the return?

The other tapping is conventional, header, main, dry
then wet correct?

Hard to tell from here, just a guess, I could be dead
wrong.

db

Edit: Kevin, If you mean the other side, like the attach,
also, how did you vent the counterflow main, just wondering?

Unknown

In your 3rd pic

the 1 1/4 inch horizontal steam main going to the right through the brick wall , is it pitched down toward the boiler ? Looks like it's pitched down to the right ?

With counterflow , the optimum way to pipe it is to drop the boiler supply pipe down into the main , into a bull headed tee . Steam flows up the main and condensate comes back from the other end of that tee . But the way you got it should work ok too . And the 1 inch return on the counterflow is piped into the return as it should be . You also need more pitch on a counterflow pipe than a normal , gravity return main . I forget how much though .

Here's a pic of a counterflow system we did a few years ago , to explain it better than I can write .

kevin coppinger_4

ok...

thanks. The second take off has 2 rads on it...only venting is at the rads 2 -10' runs 1 1/4". Yes it is counter flow the way it was piped before was crazy...I plugged it first and it was the loudest I have ever heard a pipe hammer....

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kevin coppinger_4

there is...

at least 1/4 per foot on that one...there was a 3rd pipe on the main which went to the second floor to a dead end...I cut it out this PM. That made some noise too. ty Ron.

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Paul_11

back to basics

Does it bang when you are there or only at the first morning heat up?

When does it bang? At the beginning, middle, or end of the heating cycle?

Where does it bang if you can tell? I know it is hard to tell sometimes?
On one end of the building?
On which take off?
On one or more radiators?
On one riser?


What pressure are you running at? That looks like a pressuretrol, and not a vaporstat.

Are you their regular heating guy? Do you know for sure this distribution system worked fine before you got there?

Good Luck
Paul

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Daniel_3

If you could mimic the way that V83 was piped you would certainly optimize the system. Looking at that bullhead and mains makes me feel warm and fuzzy for that counterflow. I've also seen one where the drains lead back from the two mains 5-6 ft. ahead of the bullhead around 90's(improper without drop header but . . ) and this system was very smooth. Is the hammer from the counterflow main? Is the spitting at the end of it?

bruhl_2

Daniel, is the bullhead tee that you mention the two takeoffs from the dropped header?
Just a HO here and very interested in the subject.
bruhl

kevin coppinger_4

it bangs

especially mid cycle...in 1 rad off the left hand main(the non-counterflow one) The main is insulated piched well and so is the rad. The water and steam comes out of the main vent near the end on the cycle.
The boiler pressure is cranked way down to 1#..
I inhertted this job about a month and a half ago when the old W-Mc 62 pressutrol malfunctioned and was blowing the PRV for 2 days before I was called...the near boiler piping was bad, copper DWV, bullhead tee,return piping was strange "west hartford" loop was a series of 24" pieces of copper looked like a M on.
It heated but the return was piped directly off the header.so the rads vent were very noisy and spit a ton...
the person who is living there rents and this is her 1st winter there...kpc


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Daniel_3

The bullhead tee is where the one take-off meets up at the two mains.

bruhl_2

Thanks Daniel.

bruhl