One radiator no heat

Steamhead (in transit)

alternately blowing air out and sucking it in?

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keith_28

One radiator no heat

hello-- I am having an issue with one of my radiators. The system is steam(one pipe). I have nine radiators, eight off of one branch and the problematic one is off of its own branch/riser. at the boiler there is a tee for the two branches if this helps. the pipe will not get hot farther than six or eight feet from the boiler(25ft or so to radiator). I have tried:
1) Opened riser and branch/feeder and made sure no water/sludge blockage in line(through use of vacuum while disconneted at union and also pouring water down the riser to the union)
2) changed all adjustable valves and main vent valve. this seemed to help push the heat a little further down the line (3-4ft)but does not go any further.
3)removed radiator and ran heat- did not work.
4)removed main air vent- did not work.
any help would be greatly appreciated.
when all is back together and heat is running the bad radiators' vent is open and whistling but is not hot.weird.
happy new year

Dan-N-NY

Can you post pic of the T where the one takes off

Could this be an inproper installation of a Tee and therefore a Bull-Head Tee?

keith_28

yes. hopefully this works. yellow line is return and you will see new main vent valve at the arrow. yellow circle is where the pipe will not get hot past that point. thank you.

keith_28

more pics

will post more pics if needed.

Daniel_3

Is the pipe to the left your supply riser from the boiler (one with the plug up top)? You have dry return vents not main vents. The returns do not need to be charged with steam. Get a measurement of those mains and install some vents at the end of the mains equivalent to the amount of air that needs to be vented from each. Depending on the amount of risers from each main and is full size the vent issue may solve your problem. Those vent-rites ( it looks to be) are low capacity compared to Gorton 1's and 2's.

keith_28

One Radiator w/out heat-- more pics and updates

Thank you for replying. I guess I have two supply risers. Where would I install the vents on the mains and how do I figure out the "equivalent to the amount of air that needs to be vented from each".
I also tried two things. I took the ventrite off and let the system run and no progress. I removed the radiator from the hand valvef(at floor) while running system with no progress. Now with all back together, all I'm getting is cold air whistling out of vent at radiator(while i'm writing this. is it laughing at me?)
And would flushing the system out and starting over with new water and all help?

I have posted new pics to help further explain.
I appreciate your help.

Dan-N-NY

I don't think it is the water

This may seem like a silly question but is this branch (The one not working) new? Has it ever worked?

BTW do you have a copy of the "Lost Art of Steam Heating". It is the bible of this stuff.

Dan

SpeyFitter

It is not a new branch although it is a new boiler. I bought the home 2 yrs ago the boiler was new all passed inspection. This being the third winter, I cant remember it not working my first winter here. Diffently did not work last winter. The only way to get heat on that leg is with all of the other radiators' hand valve closed.

I do not have a copy of the book. How do I go about buying the book? all I have seen are the bundles. I have learned more here in the last week than I have ever about steam.

Any ideas or suggestions? I was just down there and the dry return is piping hot. Sound right to you?

SpeyFitter

water

Also, in the last 2 winters i've only added water once to the boiler. it is always at the 1/2 mark. Why would this be?

Dan-N-NY

Water

It is a good think not to have to add water to a steam system. Not sure what you mean by half way but you should manually fill it to the water lever using the site glass will the system is completly cool. If you add it while the system is hot there is condensate(water) out in the Rad and pipes and when it returns to the boiler the boiler will flood

Dan-N-NY

From what I can tell from your pictures you have some issues with your near boiler piping. I believe that when they installed the new unit they connected the existing piping to the new boiler without regard to best practices. I am not a Pro, just a Home owner with a steam system and friends with steam that I help out when they are having issues.

The way I see it this is how your system is piped
Riser from boiler goes to header and connects with a Tee (Bull Head Tee because you are expecting the steam to go both right and left)

To the right you have the main that is not heating

To the left you have the main that is heating and the equalizer that goes back to your boiler


This is how I believe it should be from reading
Riser from boiler should Ell into the end of the header (if you only have one riser from the boiler)
There should be a length of header pipe that goes into a Tee

Out of the top of the Tee should be your first riser to your first main out of the left should be another length of header pipe connected to another Tee

Out of the top of the second Tee should be you next riser to your other main out of the left should be another length of header pipe connected to and Ell going straight down to the return side of the boiler.



Remember steam is like water and electricity it wants to find the path of least resistance to an ultimate rest. So with that said it makes sense that steam flows down your longer main with more Rads on it. There is more opportunity to escape because there is a vent on every Rad. When you shut down the long side values it then make the short side be the easiest path and the steam goes down that main.


I recommend finding a steam pro in your area or getting a second opinion from one of the pros that read this board. There is a link on this site to find a pro

Also you can buy the lost art here http://www.heatinghelp.com/shopcart/product.cfm?category=2-3

Steamhead (in transit)

Keith, recheck the pipe

from the arrow in the pic to where it goes up to the rad. Is it pitched from the rad riser back to the arrow?

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SpeyFitter

riser

yes. there is plenty of pitch.
Also from what I understand, I do not have a main vent anywhere. The only vents that I have are the return vents(vent-rite) and radiator adj. vents. Could this be a cause of the problem?

SpeyFitter

air

blowing air out of radiator. if i take the radiator of the hand valve, i can feel some air sucking back in.

not sure if venting is an issue because i took the whole radiator off with system running with the result being no steam pressure.

Captain Who

Could use another picture

There's a few things that are bothering me about the setup:

1) It looks like the troublesome main doesn't have downward pitch leading away from boiler towards radiator. Should have at least 1 in. per 20 ft.

2) I would like it better if the riser for the radiator from the main were before the downturn for the dry return. You have the opposite. In other words, in the same way that the riser for the main off of a header is always before the downturn for the equalizer.

3) Riser for the radiator from the main should be at a 45 deg. angle with respect to the vertical.

4) I see lots of missing insulation on the near boiler piping and the main. I would even insulate the dry returns up to the vents, but this may be controversial.

5) Shouldn't have a dead end tee being the first thing the steam encounters after leaving boiler. You need a 90 deg. elbow here.

6) It would be good, I think, if the header were one size bigger than the risers and the takeoffs. It allows the steam to slow down a little and to separate from the condensate.

7) I need another picture because I cannot tell how the riser from the header is attached to the header. I hope that it is not by means of a bullheaded tee, but I can't tell.

8) It would be better if the riser for the troublesome main off of the header were located further to the left, closer to the other riser. It would give more time for the condensate to settle out from the steam before it can go up this riser.

9) It would be good to also have a main vent on the troublesome main, located after the riser for the radiator but before the downturn for the dry return. Should be about 15 in. from the downturn and on about a 6in. nipple to prevent water hammer damage.

10) Need a picture that shows the hartford loop.

This is all I can think of at the moment, but you need to post a couple more pictures.

tim smith

Re: 1 radiator not working

Does this radiator have a separate return line, It looks like it may to me from pics. I would have a sneaky suspicion that the return line for this radiator is blocked with mud & sediment. May want to pull return line loose at boiler and flush up through main and back to return. Just a thought. Tim