Gas Safety

scott w.

Similiar thing happened to General Telephone in Johnston Pa. area a few decades ago. It was winter time and the ground was frozen. A NG leak was outside the building. Since the ground was frozen the ng followed the telephone company conduit inside the building. Kaboom! The cables in the conduit were not sealed and allowed the gas in the building. Needless to say no one had phone service for a quite a while.

Unknown

What is your procedure

if upon opening the door to a basement you smell gas?

Empire_2

Depends, but.....

If there is a very strong smell of gas, and I mean (every one's smell is different), I will 1ST shut down the meter as fast as possible!!! Any call that states the smell is there, I will fire up the Combustible gas detector when I get there, but As far as telling customers how to shut down a meter meter in an emergency is usually futal, but I will try......I will advise the customer to call National fuel if I cannot get there in a short time. Not every one knows where or what a shut off looks like. Our fuel Co. will basically do the same and if there is minor or major problems will shut down Whatever to make it safe until an HVAC contractor can correct the problem.

This may sound weird, but Women usually have a more sensitive nose than I or any male. This is not based on fact, but that is what I believe and see.;-) Always use soap solution to in the end PIN POINT the location.

I cannot stress enough that every home owner or business local's know where the shut off's are and how to actually shut it down. In a panic, you would be suprised how and what we forget.........

Mike T.

Brad White_96

If a faint odor

Leave the door open and shut off the cock at the meter as Mike T. said.

If strong, leave the door open and just plain leave. Call it in remotely. If the house/building is occupied, evacuate the place by banging on doors (NOT ringing the doorbell).

Leaving the door open has some controversy- you could add oxygen and lower an over-rich mixture back into the explosive range but on the other hand, if a pilot-lit appliance is present, it likely has not crossed that point.

I am sure there is more to know so I will sit back...

frank_25

> Leave the door open and shut off the cock at the

> meter as Mike T. said.

>

> If strong, leave the

> door open and just plain leave. Call it in

> remotely. If the house/building is occupied,

> evacuate the place by banging on doors (NOT

> ringing the doorbell).

>

> Leaving the door open

> has some controversy- you could add oxygen and

> lower an over-rich mixture back into the

> explosive range but on the other hand, if a

> pilot-lit appliance is present, it likely has not

> crossed that point.

>

> I am sure there is more

> to know so I will sit back...



Natural gas rises in any building, that's why you are safe in the cellar of that building, 'cause gas blows UP!......When the mess falls down, THEN you are in a heap of trouble.

Bob Harper

response to gas odor report

Two scenarios to consider:
Homeowner calls in vs. tech discovers it.

Homeowner: advise to leave bldg. immediately with all occupants. Call the cavalry from next door. Gas company/ Fire Dept. usually respond Code 3--not our company. If it involves our equipment, they shut it off, Red Tag, then we come out within a day but no emergency for us.

Tech. discovers: If LP, run like hell! If NG, consider the severity of the leak. If it is a trace sniff, get analyzer and non-corrosive soap bubble test soln. If more signicant, evacuate at once. Also, when about to enter a confined space with a suspected gas leak, should also have a calibrated CO analyzer running. The "gas" smell may actually be aldehydes, which tag along sometimes with CO and can give a false positive on your typical sniffer.

If the leak, is signicant, you will be evacuating and considering shutting off the meter. However, don't risk getting blown up. When evacuating, don't create sparks from phones, buzzers, bells, alarm systems, static discharge, etc.

If LP, evacuate, try to shut off tank and call the cavalry. An LP leak significant enough to fill a basement do you smell it at the top of the stairs is one helluva bomb waiting to go off. I had a friend killed this way. Keep in mind even with doors open, LP will take a long time to clear out. Much of it may clear and still leave puddles of gas within the combustibility limits so respect it, do a thorough search down low where the gas accumulates.

Probably more but I just got in from the Left Coast and trying to tighten up my jet lag.

jim lockard

What type

of gas Tim? Natural,L.P. or both J.Lockard

Unknown

First of all do not

trust your nose it does not measure percent gas. This could be a natural gas or LP gas odor.If you do not have a calibrated combustible gas detector which measure percent gas then what you do is evacuate yourself and any customers, then call the local utility. Never go into a building that has an odor of gas unless you absolutely know what the source is and then proceed with caution. The Lower Explosive limit of natural gas is 4.5% and LP is 2.15% anything above those levels is explosive.

Then from a remote location call the gas company. Let the gas company determine if fire dept is needed.

If you can safely do so shut off potential sources of ignition, gas meter, pull electric meter, etc.

An easy way to remember is above L.E.L. "EVACUATE" below "VENTILATE".

It is a good idea for all trades to have a good Combustible Gas Indicator. That way you will always know what you are working with, even when the odorant (ethyl mercaptan) that is added to both LP and Natural gas has faded or in some cases is not present at all.

THE REAL POINT HERE IS DO NOT ENTER WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW!!!

If you have questions I will try to answer them for you.

Dave Larsen_2

can't be too careful!!

Interesting case in Ellison bay WI this week. it seems a utility worker was working outside doing some underground work and severed a LP line in the yard.............propane traveled thru cracks in the rock (door county WI is really just one big rock!) and settled in the crawlspaces of three different buildings, oddly sparing a couple of buildings in between them. Something sparked in the middle of the night leaving two dead and three buildings gone. this is a terrible accident and a reminder that what we all do has a Huge responsibility to it. You can never be too careful.My heart goes out to the children that lost their parents in this blast.

Weezbo

Bail

Weezbo

all of the above

once everyone is safe...you can invest some time correcting the cause.

Unknown

I was taught

I was taught that if u smell gas, u must find the leak(s),if not, then call the proper dept.,etc... Last dec, during the "warm" spell, air was "heavy", left my friend's home and I could smell n gas with my car windows closed. Stopped and backed up with window opened..sure enough, can smell gas coming thru the cracks of the pavement. Went back to call fire dept and they located the leak at the curb, drainage pipe,etc.. I felt I did my duty and the gas company didn't think so as they waited til this mont(july) to repaired the broken main. Wondering who's been paying all those leaky gas?

Bob Harper

equipment?

Depending upon what equipment you have and what you can afford affects your actions. I have a Gas Trac which acts as a sniffer for low levels, % volume and LEL, and CO all at once. Factory reconditioned cost $150 on ebay. Works great! However, there are still many techs out there with NO electronic sniffers, analyzers, etc. Just not acceptable today.

Yes, the nose is unreliable. About 15% of the population not sensitive to mercaptans assuming your nose is on the floor for LP and there has not been any odor fade.

Gene_3

I may have missed this point if made

but, if a owner calls and says they have a strong smell ask them is they are in the building, if they answer yes, tell them NOT TO HANG UP, PLACE THE PHONE GENTLY DOWN AND GET EVERYONE OUT WITHOUT TURNING ON/OFF ANYTHING, go next door or away from building with cell and call Fire Dept, I will meet them there, or I will call for them,

they can usually get there faster than me and can check it out better than I can.

Unknown

rjbphd if finding the leak endangers

your life or the lives of others what was your teaching? I assume you do not have a gas detector so you are relying on your nose which does not measure percent gas. I want to teach everyone that if you smell gas and do not know the source then "EVACUATE", that is the only safe way. You are otherwise gambling with your own life and the life of others. You can roll the dice once two often and up comes "snake eyes".

Now as far as the gas company repairing leaks they have a process of classification which they follow based on the percent of gas measured and its location. Over a certain percent at the wall of a structure or entering a structure must be repaired immediately. Other wise it is put on a survey and they monitor the intensity every so often and as time and scheduling permit it will be repaired. Your leak was classified as non-threatening and put on a repair list for the future (hence this July). This should never however stop you from reporting a smell of gas and let the experts determine its intensity.

As for the gas leaking it is before any meters I would hope so that one is on the gas company and they carry insurance to cover unaccounted gas losses. They cannot pass that on to consumers in most states.

Unknown

Gene, it is best to follow

the procedure you outlined. Just one correction, do not send them to the building next door as gas can be leaking into multiple buildings at the same time. Get them out into the street and get the gas company there first as they have the main and service records and instruments needed to isolate and locate. The Fire Dept many times just adds to the confusion. Let the first responder from the gas company make that determination as to whether the fire department is needed.

The Fire Dept is very important if mass evacuation is required along with the police and any other agency which can assist in evacuating people safely.

Plumdog_2

LP in the basement

or pit where it may accumulate is exceedingly hazardous; against code in most rational jurisdictions and bad installation practice. Many people have been blown up or severely burned by pooled heavier-than-air gas. I think crawlspace installations are the worst possible scenario.

Larry (from OSHA)

if you don't test, you don't know

When you combine the right combination of circumstances, you get a big boom.

Tim's question needs to be looked at again. When you open the door, you don't know anything, but you have already changed the conditions.

If the gas laden atmosphere is above the UEL, just opening the door can be a big mistake. But every situation is different. First - safety of yourself and anyone in the building. If they are still in there, get them out. Then, shut off the source (the meter). Now test if it can be done safely. If above the UEL you need to think about eliminating sources of ignition. If you are qualified to pull the meter or whatever, think about a plan. If not, think about a plan. The thermostat calling for heat and the spark ignition is relatively safe while the atmosphere is above the UEL. Something to think about.

This building was evidently above the UEL and then something changed because the door was opened and people walked inside to ventilate.

IF YOU DON'T TEST, YOU DON'T KNOW. Do You?

Weezbo

What an I opener ,Larry.

That should convince anyone .There is a real reason to pay heed to wisdom.

Unknown

Larry, it is interesting that

the American Gas Association for many years in their literature would tell people to ventilate if they smelled gas. I never did agree with that because unless you know the level of gas you should just get out of there and call for help.

Just one other point, it is okay to shut off the gas meter, however it is a fact that most gas explosions are caused by outside contractor damage to street or service pipeing into the building. Do not get lulled into thinking that if you shut the meter off you stopped the source. It may be leaking in through the foundation or water trench into the basement.

Most importantly is that everyone needs training on gas safety and carbon monoxide safety procedures. The life you save may be your own.