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commercial boilers
keith
Member Posts: 224
but the Hurst Rep was as disapointed as me.
Apparently NYC has a stringent testing policy and manufactorurs are reluctant to spend the $ / jump thru the hoops unless they are confident it's worth the effort.
Strangely enough there are field fabricated steel boilers that are accepted in NYC?
Keith
Apparently NYC has a stringent testing policy and manufactorurs are reluctant to spend the $ / jump thru the hoops unless they are confident it's worth the effort.
Strangely enough there are field fabricated steel boilers that are accepted in NYC?
Keith
0
Comments
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recommended commercial boilers
What would you guy's spec on a commercial project in NYC?
The application is (2) 100HP heating load and (1) 40 HP domestic load boilers. The system uses mostly PTAC units with small, 12,000 btu hot water coils. There are 6 airhandlers with hot water coils with OA capabilities.
We are going to use the existing fabricated chimeny, 10 stories tall. dual fuel capability, customer not to excited about sectional boilers, need 60PSI rating.
Not a candidate for condensing boiler technology in my opinion.
Aproved for use in NYC.
Any suggestions?
Keith0 -
Gee, you kinda shot down the good stuff....
Non-condensing, non-sectional leaves copper fin boilers (in a modular arrangement to achieve capacity), fire-tube such as Cleaver-Brooks, Kewaunee, Johnson.. or water-tube such as by Cleaver-Brooks, Fulton, Bryant and others.
I am thinking the latter, flexible water tube boilers. Easier to get a 60 psig rating from a tube than from a shell (but the Fire-Tube shells handle that pressure just fine, thank you...). Choice of burners which do not, IIRC, apply to copper fin boilers. Fire tube boilers tend to be slightly more efficient in the lower horsepowers.
Not sure what NYC code requirements are but I have to imagine they can be met.0 -
Classic case of...
> What would you guy's spec on a commercial project
> in NYC?
>
> The application is (2) 100HP heating
> load and (1) 40 HP domestic load boilers. The
> system uses mostly PTAC units with small, 12,000
> btu hot water coils. There are 6 airhandlers with
> hot water coils with OA capabilities.
>
> We are
> going to use the existing fabricated chimeny, 10
> stories tall. dual fuel capability, customer not
> to excited about sectional boilers, need 60PSI
> rating.
>
> Not a candidate for condensing boiler
> technology in my opinion.
>
> Aproved for use in
> NYC.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Keith
0 -
Classic case of...
This is a classic case and example of some thoughts I was arguing with myself about just today. The main thought was, when is it feasible to rip out what's there in order to take advantage of newer style mod-con technology.
I agree with Brad. You've eliminated nearly everything that could be classified as high efficiency with the brief list of spec's you posted.
See (For discussion) under Heating Efficiency issues0 -
> This is a classic case and example of some
> thoughts I was arguing with myself about just
> today. The main thought was, when is it feasible
> to rip out what's there in order to take
> advantage of newer style mod-con technology.
> I agree with Brad. You've eliminated nearly
> everything that could be classified as high
> efficiency with the brief list of spec's you
> posted.
>
> See (For discussion) under Heating
> Efficiency issues
0 -
> This is a classic case and example of some
> thoughts I was arguing with myself about just
> today. The main thought was, when is it feasible
> to rip out what's there in order to take
> advantage of newer style mod-con technology.
> I agree with Brad. You've eliminated nearly
> everything that could be classified as high
> efficiency with the brief list of spec's you
> posted.
>
> See (For discussion) under Heating
> Efficiency issues
0 -
> This is a classic case and example of some
> thoughts I was arguing with myself about just
> today. The main thought was, when is it feasible
> to rip out what's there in order to take
> advantage of newer style mod-con technology.
> I agree with Brad. You've eliminated nearly
> everything that could be classified as high
> efficiency with the brief list of spec's you
> posted.
>
> See (For discussion) under Heating
> Efficiency issues
0 -
Why not sectional?
Smith, Weil, Peerless, & others have 80# boilers. You might want to reconsider condensing. The KN Series HydroTherms are mod/cons w/ pressure ratings up to 100#. Available in 600, 1,000, & 1,999 mbh inputs. They're working on (maybe already done) smaller input units. Worth a look.
0 -
Hurst Boiler Co. makes an awesome steel firetube that you should look into.
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Non condensing
The only reason I have ruled out condensing boilers is that we are using the existing fabricated chimney. We cannot direct vent because of clearance issues and if vent into the chimney it will destroy the steel liner in no time.
Hurst is not approved for use in the city.
I will be quoting Burnham (2)V11's and a Burnham (1)V9 but I need to cover the sectional boiler concerns the owner has. For whatever reason he seems to be stumbling with the sectional design. Has issues with sectional leaks.
Thanks for the feedback,
Keith0 -
Hey Keith just out of curiosity why is it that Hurst isn't aproved in the city? Seems to me the city would rather have a Hurst than any cast iron sectional. Just curious!
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commercial boilers
burnham makes cast iron boilers-they pour their own iron in their foundry and they stand behind them 100%-they are easy to assemble with a ratchet wrench and most times it will keep the water inside the iron0 -
Even better
I order them assembled, wired and fired. Hire the riggers to get them in place. We hook up the dots and field commission them.
Burnham has always been an asset and a great resource. I owe a lot of what and how I do business to the folks at Burnham.
I have no problem with the sectional boilers we have installed aboat load of them.
Keith0 -
Got me thinking
The only reason I ruled out condensing boilers is my lack of venting options.
The shame is both the heating and domestic hot water systems could be in a condensing mode the majority of the time.
How can I use the existing chimney with a low temp stack situation? I'm not sure lining it is an option.
Keith0 -
Might want to check w/
a rep who does stainless vents. Might also look at an engineered vent system. The potential fuel reduction numbers are worth the effort.0 -
Good suggestion
Ron,
If the project happens and I get awarded it I'll look into a SS liner. It would be a shame to pass up this opportunity to create some real energy savings. Not sure about Viessman but I know most of the condensors have issues with length of vent & intake piping.
Keith0 -
boiler options
What about a Buderus mod con SB boiler to meet most of the load, then a cast iron sectional for the rest. Full mod on the Buderus. Liner probably 10" for the SB and same for the backup castiron. ? most old chimneys for that much equipment would have enough room. Still a ? on the combustion air, but I think on the SB you don't need to pipe direct for comb. air. Just a Thought. Tim.0 -
Broadening the Options
I agree with all of the postings here and should have taken a wider view myself, rather than taking the edict for non-condensing and non-sectional at face value.
The others that posted are entirely correct in that due diligence says one should responsibly at least offer the better systems even if costs seem to be an issue. Long term operating costs demand this or at least that the Owner is given the option and may freely decline.
The use of a hybrid plant (The Buderus or other condensing boiler for shoulder seasons) is a worthy alternative to all or nothing.
Good going everyone!
Brad0 -
How about one Aerco KC-1000 for the whole thing? Perhaps the finest and most proven commercial Mod/Con out there. I believe the KC-1000 has been in service since 1987.. I like them anyway.
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Lets see
Today I submitted the proposal, lets see what direction it takes. The owner's rep (she) indicated that they were pleased with what was presented. The next step is it gets kicked up to the financial people who evaluate it on merit.
Will be a nice project if it moves forward.
Crazy to rip apart a large commercial boiler room at the end of July, but hey isn't that what we live for? A summer shot. The pressure of supplying heat by October 15th or sooner.
Thats living.
Keith
0
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