Power gas burner?

Chris_82

Thanks Tim, have the manual, don't have the gas gage with me. Ruling out control at this time because mirror dosen't show any flame at all. But the number of turns, seems like half turns make a difference? Will be back sometime tommoro, with out gage to test gas valve, feels like i'm wasting my time guessing. Also will test orifice size with new drill, customer cannot recollect if installer did this, but am noticing 200,000 btu boiler and air adjuster set to 2 turns? I guess this unit is much more sensitve than the old minco or others previously mentioned? Thanx again.

S Ebels

Carlin or Midco

I have to install a Bock water heater with an LP fired power burner on it. The owner says I can pick which burner is used on the W/H but I am unfamiliar with both of them as far as LP gas goes. Anyone had any experience with wither brand? Midco or Carlin, what's your pleasure?

Al Letellier_9

gas power burner

If the application works....Riello....enough said. In my book

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Steve Ebels_3

I'm told

Bock won't supply a Riello on this particular water heater. Probably haven't tested it with brand R. Riello would be my choice hands down. I have a notion to tell them to get the heater sans burner and put a Riello on myself because that's what I stock parts for and have experience with. Carlin and Midco are about as common as hair on a frog in these parts.

Josh_10

Steve I have worked with the Carlin burner. I would put it in the Beckett category. Nothing super but nothing bad either. You can get 6% O2 @ To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

Steve go with the

Carlin G3A or G3B for LP gas and you will not have a problem. The new Carlin EZ I have not installed so I am not sure I would recommend it. The only draw back on Carlin is that it will only go up to 180,000 BTU's. I have been able to get Carlin burners up to around 82% efficiency with very low CO (around 85 PPM to 95 PPM) on a conversion from oil to gas on both natural gas and LP.

Midco has been the burner of choice here in New England for a long time and they are very good burners. I like them for 175,000 up to 225,000 BTU range. I have installed over 3,000 Midco Economite E-20's (thermocouple) in my career and had very few problems. They will give efficiency in the range of 75% to 80% with low CO (around 50 to 55 PPM).

Over 250,000 I would definitely go with MIDCO burners.

Josh_10

There you go! From the man himself. I will remember that for future reference Tim..

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Jim Pompetti

Midco

I've have installed them , and they've been trouble free or years nand years

Ken D._2

Gas Burners

Carlin, Beckett or Midco. You can't go wrong.

Dick Charland

In a prior life, when I worked for Carlin, we were finallizing and introducing the EZ Gas burner. A very technician friendly piece of equipment which will work well on the Bock. The unit starts at 75,000 and tops out at 275,000 I believe. Advantage, relatively short flame and works well if you have low gas pressure issues, will recycle if flame is lost. The G3B was a great burner, needs negative draft for operation, EZ Gas will fire in pressure applications.

Unknown

****, the only

problem I have with the EZ is the fact that there is no orifice. On a conversion it makes it difficult to adjust for maximum input when test firing. I can see if it is matched to a particular boiler and sized for that boiler as a design retrofit. But for conversion it makes it difficult. I do not like to make drastic adjustments to pressure and prefer and orifice change to match needed firing rate. Many of the servo regulators used on gas valves today do not function well when bottomed out they work much better at mid-point. One of the things they will due at high end setting is search and fluctuate.

Dick Charland

Tim, the EZ has an orifice, it is (was??) a part of the air tube. I do not know if they changed the design to accomodate making the orifice replaceable or not. You had to drill the tube to the correct size on an off the shelf replacement burner, too large uh-oh.

Dick Charland

For those not aware of it, check out the new Beckett gas series on the commercial side.

Unknown

**** that is the problem

if you drill it wrong you own the burner. Orifices are and have been the gas industry's way to fine tune equipment. It is also very difficult to drill. I also had trouble with three different burners that the 3/4" threaded tapping would not receive a standard 3/4" nipple and had to be retapped.

Dick Charland

Tim, I agree, you'd have to replace the air tube. I don't disagree, we made the argument when it was under development. I have installed several since leaving and I really haven't had any issues, alway drilled smaller etc.

S Ebels

Draft issues

The building that these water heaters are going in is subject to inconsistent draft which is why I want to use power burners in the first place. Are you saying that the G3 would not be a good choice if the draft is not steady?

Dick Charland

Correct, check with Bock I know they use the EZ Gas on their direct vent etc. Works very well. Riello makes a great unit however it can be a problem in short combustion chambers, need to check depth.

Unknown

As long as draft

is negative to slightly positive most power gas conversion burners will handle that without a problem. Much like an oil burner you want to check draft at the Barometric both sides and also over fire draft. I am the odd ball I know but I monitor draft and temperature at several locations to insure a balanced flue gas situation and mnake sure I do not get into "Curtain effect". The G3A and G3B take a little patience setting up the air on the burner so that it is stable but once it is established things really take off with good combustion results. The burners need pulled apart about every two to three years and clean the perforated screen on the front of the burner. Much more often if in dirty conditions. This can be done without removing the burner just pull the igniter/burner assembly and reach in with a soft brush and then vcuum.(I actually do them every year just to be safe)

Chris_82

Out on a GB3 call right now

Was running, now not. Homeowner has played with air setting and wires. Gas gage at home. Looks like the control and gas valve are working ok but gas just won't light? What did you mean "touchy" just how touchy are these things setting the air control? Cleaned out ignightor and tube, glows fine, not dirty to beigin with. Don't have "dial" meter to test flame on signal, but don't see any evidence using long mirror that gas is ignighting at all. Any suggestions.

Unknown

Do you have the manual

for the G3B Carlin? If so measure the orifice size and check gas pressure to get an idea how many BTU's you are burning. Then go to the air setting chart on the manual and set the air accordingly. It it still will not light make slight air adjustments until it does. It takes some doing but not impossible.

Make sure the front of the burner is clear of any dust, it can be cleaned without removing the burner from the back side after pulling igniter tube.

Unknown

G3B can only go up

to 180,000 BTU's. At 180,000 the air throttle settings should be around 9 Turns. There should be a "D" size orifice (.246)at 3.5" W.C. You should have an O2 reading of around 4 to 5% with a CO2 at 8.5% to 9.5%, with CO under 100 PPM with a net stack temp of 350 to 450 degrees.

tim smith

Midco

The DS20 or I think today may be the DS22 burner is a pretty simple piece of equipment. Easy adjustments, pretty quiet. We usually can get the CO down into the low 20s depending on the equipment. I don't know much about the Carlin gas as we don't see them much around here. As Tim said, the old E20 was a work hors standing pilot job, even simpler as no electronics etc. Good luck, Tim

Chris_82

Tim

Unable to get a flame, Carlin rep is going to make a site visit. Ran through every test in manual. We think the draft is just too great: 8" square terracotta lined 80' chimney. In which case, well any suggestions?

Unknown

Chris does this

equipment have a draft hood or a barometric? Try this disconnect the flue from the unit and see if it will fire and stay lit.

Then reconnect the flue and take a draft before and after the draft control. Let me know how you make out with the Carlin Rep.

Chris_82

Baro

Rep took the unit, back to northhampton for a factory inspection because He can't understand why it would't light. Will try the flu disconnect next week, glad the customer hadn't gotten around to removing the oil tank.

Unknown

+Why didn't he

try a new burner?

Chris_82

?

Belive it or not, they don't travel with spares, mumbled something about having to purchase a new one, and then a credit, and then making sure the old one got back, sounded a lot like nonsense to me. What was curious was he was convinced it was some sort of mysterious problem and he had to take the old one back for examination. The supply house said once purchased and installed...no return. Another case of everyone with their own agenda and the customer and I last in the loop. I hate getting stiffed 500.00 but I suspect another brand is going to be installed when the oil tank gets low. And I will most definatly small claims peabody supply about their return policy.

Unknown

Is this unit in warranty?

I would imagine Carlin should make good on it if the supply house will not.

Chris_82

Still in waranty.

For gripes sake this thing was still in the box! Sometimes these people at the factory really get to me with some of the excuses they come up with and the supply house is all to ready to jump up and down about how they have to protect themselves and not get stiffed by the local reps. hence just one aditional reason they refuse to take things back. But in this state they forget about the 30 day return law. O'h I imagine sometime next week a brand new unit will arrive at the door, and they can pat themselves on the back how wonderful we are. But in the meantime I'm left playing with oil at my own expense, stuck in the middle, but it was kind of fun watching another "factory trained" rep about 25 years old, PLAY with the air adjuster, he kept moving it in 90 degree increments getting no-where, he refused to belive what I had already done. Which is why I posted in the first place, don't really want it if it's that touchy to set up. Nothing against young people by the way, but they can save their trade school flunkies for someone else. Not against trade schools either, but someone with some field experience would have been nice.

Leo

The kid is

The kid was probably doing what he was told to do. Carlin used to have good oil burner parts then quality seemed to drop and they never admit to a problem. But they seem to give the reps a story to have to pass along.

Leo

Chris_82

just got the G3B burner back!

After a factory site visit, one month later, at no cost other than their pride, Carlin sent an ez-burner replacment, hand delivered no less, to replace a defective G3B. They said they "spoke to the local supply house" about how they treated the customer, and also spoke to them about accepting returns regardless of the orifice being drilled or not! Turns out the G3B has problems...the replacment ez-fired up instantly. Carlin reps supposdly spoke to the supply house, and indicated in this senario, they should have supplied another unit, instantly without question versus the boat load of bull the countermen dished out so they wouldn't have to repack a defective unit (series) and pay for the shipping themselves. The motto, if you have drilled and the unit still dosen't work bring it back, from the factory...sorry about your supply house's attitude...call us first next time.