switch from steam to hotwater

Jim_83

I need to replace my steam boiler. The radiators are on the inside walls, not the ideal placement.

I’m also planning on residing the house.

My questions is: Should I stay with steam or switch to hotwater?

I don’t have any complaints with steam, but I have only had steam heat.
I understand hotwater heat is more efficient and comfortable. Is that true?

My thinking about switching to hot water now is some of the piping can be done from the outside and then insulated and covered during the residing. This would minimize the cutting into walls from the inside, patching, wallpapering.

The supply and return pipe would be in the outside wall stud cavities. Is this OK or is it potential freezeup problem waitng to happen?

If I decide on hotwater heat, all new piping would be used so there is no concern of the old steam pipes not being able to handle the higher water pressure.

I think in floor radiant is beyond my budget. So it’s probably baseboard radiators or the radiant panels.

What would you do? What are the pitfalls of switching to hot water?

Thank you.

Steve Garson_2

Convert to HW only if you have money to burn. You will never in your lifetime reap a return on your investment.

But if your present system is not comfortable, then it is another matter, since radiators are supposed to be on exterior walls.

Steve

Nathan E. Tillier

response to changeover

Are you on a basement,crawl,slab??? I would definitely try and avoid putting any piping that maintains a constant water pressure in any outside walls where freezing temps can come along, especially boiler piping due to the fact that it is extremely "thin" if you will. I happen to prefer steam mysely but that is just personal preference. If you are set on converting and it is currently a two pipe steam system,go for it. I wouldnt necessarily worry about pressure in the old steam piping because your typical hot water system is only running at about 12-15 lbs. I guess some more info concerning the house and the logistics of it would help in making an educated decision

Jim_83

I'm not dead set on converting to hotwater. This would be the second floor and attic, so there would be some piping involved for the hotwater radiators. It’s a one pipe steam system. I’m leaning toward staying with steam, but had to ask for the Wall’s advice.

I was thinking I have an opportunity to switch now because of the residing job.

I can think of advantages of staying with the steam besides not having the expense of re-piping the radiators.
1. Less likely to have frozen burst steam pipes if I lose power since there is very little water in them and if there is any freezing the pipe should be able to handle it.
2. If a pipe does break, there is less potential water damage since it is steam. I know a hotwater system could have a manual makeup water feed, but there is still the water in the system and if a pipe breaks low in the system you have a mess.
3. With steam there is no pump to circulate the steam, I like no moving parts. Less likely to break.

But… It looks like the high efficiency heating systems are hot water and not steam. I just wonder if the added cost to repipe for hot water can be recouped with it’s higher efficiency in a 10 year period? And, hotwater can be zoned more easily.

I'm surprised you’re partial to steam. I thought everyone would prefer hotwater. Why do you like steam?

ed wallace

switching from steam to hot water

if you go with baseboard you not get the same heat output with steam the rads heat up and hold the heat with baseboard there is no thermal mass to hold the heat running pipes in outside wall cavities is always abad idea potential pipe freeze ups

Steamhead (in transit)

I'm partial to steam too

which should be obvious......

Those high AFUE numbers on some hot-water boilers only occur if the water temperature is kept below 140 degrees all the time. This happens mostly on in-floor radiant systems but can happen on baseboard or radiator systems if there is enough radiating surface. If you try to convert steam radiators to hot-water, you will likely have to run them at higher temperatures than 140 degrees. Bye-bye super-high efficiency.

And despite what Nathan says, I'd be VERY worried about leaks if you try to convert and re-use the old piping and radiators. I've seen buildings severely damaged when a conversion leaked. Remember, a steam system runs at less than 2 pounds. A hot-water system runs at 12 pounds minimum. So the higher pressure will do a great job of finding weak points in old piping and radiators.

My company does not recommend or perform steam-to-water conversions, and will not work on a system someone else has converted. Period.

Stay with steam, for all the reasons cited in this thread.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

GW

burning money

actually, don't spend money on anything, you will die a wealthier person.

Is there even such a thing as steam heating in Europe, the most expensive place to heat a home on the planet?

Gary

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Bob Bona_4

I would

switch to HW, faced w/ your scenario. A home run setup w/ panel rads or even baseboard would be nice. Follow heat loss guidelines, piping guidelines for hot water and you will be all set.

I had one pipe steam in my own house when I bought it. I really don't have the time or inclination to babysit a constantly corroding steam system, plus, just as I don't care for one light switch to turn on the all the lights in the house, I like zoning. Mr. Steam went away to nostalgialand. I gained eight inches of floor space under the windows/walls to boot.

If you have the opportunity, and budget to do it, and are willing to open some walls here and there, go for it!

nicholas bonham-carter

ah steam...perfect steam!!!

my experience with our one pipe system --60 rads 3-floors is now close to perfect now that we have corrected improper piping ,venting and reduced the pressure to ounces.heat is more gentle and quick to arrive.
these systems require adjustment from time to time over their 50-year boiler life span but can work as well as hot water[which we could not have switched to]
i could not have done these improvements without THE WALL [and dans book!!]
so my advice to all one-pipers is keep your "instrument" in tune and it will play sweet music!
--nbc

GW

nice

I was wondering if there were any other pro-water-convert heating guys here!

I dig steam as much as the next guy (i love the smell of melting Yellow #5!), I just don't understand why someone wouldn't consider replacing because of the (obvious) higher cost. Of course it costs more! Lots more. Can you imagine buying a new car and the sales man says: "this new car will never pay for itself; it's a waste of money". Well, if you don't consider the piece of mind, the lack of service/repair needs, and the flexibility of hot water, and the fuel savings with a smartrly installed constant circ/outdoor reset system, it would be a waste.


Gary

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Nathan E. Tillier

I am partial to steam for the exact reasons you have already indicated, simplicity is bliss. I agree with steamhead to a point, but notice he has seen "buildings" , he did not say every building because that would not be a true statement. I have completed a large number of conversions in my home state of Michigan and we have our fair share of old architecture and unless the piping has endured years of abuse and/or were installed incorrectly to begin with, there is no reason in the world that the integrity of the piping shouldn't withstand a mere 12 lbs. In my home state there are many systems that were converted many years back from two-pipe steam to hot water and have been running like a top since then. Reading your last message, being that you currently have a single pipe system, i would personally recommend keeping your current system and with a little fine tuning, possibly movement of some rads and you would be in fine shape. I hope that your decision fills you and your familys needs and god bless.

Jim_83

Thank you to everyone that responded to my post.
All your comments are well received.
I’ve learned a lot here just reading the posts.

Best wishes to all for a healthy, happy and prosperous New Year.

Steamhead (in transit)

I've seen

several buildings that leaked after conversion. That's enough for me- I'm not putting my customers' buildings/homes in harm's way like that.

Since there really is no significant efficiency gain in transferring BTUs using hot-water rather than steam if both systems are in good condition, why take the risk?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

joe lambert_2

Steam to hot water

When I gut my own home I contemplated switching to forced hot water too like you. Because of the much higher cost of installing a new forced hot water system compared to installing a new steam boiler I stayed with the steam and corrected some of the system problems that existed. I heat with a gas boiler with an AFUE of only 81.5% yet my yearly heating bill is only about $900-$1000 for a 1500 sq ft house. The house is very well insulated and I use a setback thermostat. The heat is very even (within 3 degrees) because of Dan's books and I'm glade I stayed with steam. Most of the forced hot water boilers are only a few points higher in AFUE unless you spend $$$$ more for a boiler rated in the high 90”s and you don't have any circulator pumps running up your electric bill either (although I don’t know how much that would be).