main vents in wrong position

Terry in NJ

I'll have those items looked at.

What problems does no header cause?

Terry in NJ

The green circle represents the location of the main vent in a single pipe steam system. The last branch off the main seems to do all the work venting that main.

After finally locating the main vents behind a drywalled basement, I had the them replaced with new gorton no1 to replace the existing of the same size. I don't hear them working at all when the system runs. All radiator vents have been replaced wth new heat-timer varivalve vents.

Should the main vent be located on the branch instead?

Steamhead (in transit)

Not usually

but how long is the branch, and is it pitched properly?

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Terry in NJ

18 foot branch off of a 48 foot main, pitch looks reasonable

as it goes down back toward main.

main/return design seems to have been done to avoid water service entrance though basement walls.

Thanks

Steamhead (in transit)

18 feet

is rather long for a runout (branch), I'd move the main vent to maybe 6 feet prior to the riser at the end the runout, unless the other runouts in the system are about that long. And use a Gorton #2 rather than a #1.

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Terry in NJ

so I am clear - 9 ft horizontal, then a 9 ft rise to 2nd floor

in case I am measuring differently then you may have expected.

Steamhead (in transit)

OK, I thought

you meant 18 feet horizontal- 9 feet is a bit more usual, so the main vent can stay where it is. I'd still use a Gorton #2 on that main though, assuming it's 2-inch pipe, 48 feet is a lot for a Gorton #1.

What length and diameter is your other main?

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Brad White_184

An observation

Is the main vent really right at the end of the main? Ideally it should be set back from the end by at least a foot to 18 inches and set 6 inches above the main.

The diagram says to me, absent more detail, that the vent is on top of a tee, one side aiming up to the vent, the other aiming down to the return.

This arrangement will promote the "slamming" of a slug of condensate being forced to the end of the main to the return. I would pull the vent back about 15 inches and set it on a 6-inch nipple above the main if you can. Key is to avoid the condensate slugs.

Vents make horrible shock absorbers and a good hydraulic slam would turn a perfectly good vent into a doorstop.

You may have to move it regardless or extend it back away from the potential collision point.

My $0.02

Terry in NJ

Yes it is at the end, but with a little rise to it that I didn't include in my diagram. Could the vent and runout locations be switched?

Terry in NJ

the other main is about the same length, maybe 2 feet shorter

I believe the main size is 2". Thanks for the interest.

I posted a picture of the vent below in another reply. Here are some other pictures of the steam system installed in 1993. This is our first winter in new to us but 107 year old house. Startup was rough with lots of banging. Many radiators were completely shut of. After leveling and new radiator vents, opening valves and a servicing, things were better. I was told by the plumber that the system had not been well maintained. A bookcase base needed to be cut to allow a radiator valve and went to be serviced. A few weeks later, the pressure relief valve went. Received a massive gas bill for that month. The PRV and the pressure control were replaced. Recently the igniter and gas valve went and I had the main vents installed.

Things are really going pretty well now from a heat comfort perspective. I'm probably going out of my way to get the venting right(noise comfort) since our 4 year old is at the end of the line and lets us know whenever the radiator venting wakes her up!

From this site over the last few weeks, I think I've learned the following about my system:

good:
- insulated mains
- has main vents (but in right places)
- no more off level/closed valve banging of system
- appears to have hartford loops
- mains returns seem to have proper pitching

bad
-copper pipes above waterline
-main vents not in correct position.

Steamhead (in transit)

Is that main

copper for its entire length?

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Terry in NJ

Yes, the main is all copper.

Terry in NJ

I snuck in some photos of the system above if it helps

HitzKup_2

No header

That boiler has no header and the hartford loop (loops?) is piped too high, have it repiped as per manufecturers spec.

SpeyFitter

Header

I'll give it a shot:
The header is a predominantly horizontal (it actually slopes downward towards the equalizer) section of piping right after the takeoff from the boiler which helps to direct the condensate towards the equalizer and back into the boiler. It is an area of near boiler piping which helps to ensure that only dry steam will enter the mains and that the condensate goes to the equalizer. In your setup with no header, the condensate will just be falling back downward against the upward flow of steam, and is not encouraged to go into the equalizer. Any time you have steam and condensate flowing in opposing directions it is bad (sometimes you can't avoid it in a one pipe steam system).

Also, the horizontal section of the Hartford Loop should be as short as possible (close nipple, downward Y or street elbow). Yours is way too long and will cause more tendency for water hammer here, especially if the hartford is too high relative to the waterline. The top of the piping for the hartford loop should be 2 to 4 in. below the waterline.

Good Luck.

I'm also in NJ - Springfield.

Terry in NJ

Thank you Capt Who

I've got one of the board pro's coming tomorrow. I will post an update once things are straightened out.

I'm from the next town over - Millburn/Short Hills