fixed an abortion boiler

kevin coppinger_4

I get it...sounds like the supply is too small. If you split it up you won't need such a large circ...just another circ...good luck. kpc

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scrook_2

cant get a flow

I get a call to fix an ABORTION boiler.Ten loops of 1/2" pex supposedly 250 ft each(I didn't do original install). All radiant. Original contractor piped boiler with 10 zone valves and never wired them. They were all locked manually in the open position. No mixing valve and only one thermostat for the entire house. Customer says he cant walk on some of the floors without his feet burning. Aquastat set at 190 degrees. I stripped the boiler and started from scratch. I piped it P/S and I used a Wirsbro 10 loop manifold complete with the flow meters. I separated the pool house and put it on its own zone with a wireless honeywell thermostat and the matching relay. I left the house on the single thermostat as per the customers request. Heres the problem........... I used 3 Wilo 3 speed circs...........one on the primary, and one each on both secondary loops. The pool house is fine but I am having a problem with the 9 loop manifold. It seems that no matter how I try to throttle the loops, I can't seem to get water flow thru all 9 loops. I can get 7 ok but the other 2 I can't get to work. I found a Taco 0010 in my shop and swapped out the Wilo thinking my problems would be solved but that was not the case. After installing the 0010, I could not get any flow at all. Nada. Zip. I mounted the pump correctly but none of the flow meters indicated any flow whatsoever. I swapped out the 0010 and put back the Wilo so he could have partail heat because we all know that things like this happen on a holiday when supply houses are closed. Do you think that maybe because I left the wilo on the prmary loop it wasn't supplying enough water for the 0010 to supply enough water for the secondary loop? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!! Happy holidays to all!!!!

GW

p/s

The secondary pumps should have no idea what the primary pump is doing, and vise-versa. That's the whole idea of p/s. There's a disconnect between the two systems; it's how it's supposed to work.

No flow... the last two loops, did you shut off other loops to create more flow on your problem circuits? Are you sure you're not air-bound? are you sure you're not frozen? If you didn't install the stuff, who knows what could be happening. You may want to try blowing some air through the two problem lines; something seems wrong.

I used to bleed radiant lines through the manifold, but now I yank the return pex line off of the manifold and let it rip into a bucket... seeing is believing.

Gary

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kevin coppinger_4

gary makes a good....

point about the purge. What are the loop lengths? can you hunt on them and find some makings? If it were my job I would split out the loops as 5 on 1 manafold and 4 on another...use two circs proerly sized a run off the 1 tsata...this sould get you more flow. kpc

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doug_14

FLOW

I HAVE 6400 SQUARE FEET TRUCK GARAGE THAT HAS 7400 FEET OF 1/2 TUBING WITH 3 MANIFOLDS WITH 011S 2 OF THEM WORK @ 18 PSI THE 3RD WILL NOT FLOW UNLESS I PUSH THE PSI UP TO 27 PSI IN THE SYSTEM THIS MAY HELP FOR NOW

scrook_2

Thanks for the info Gary.............The 2 loops I am having the problem with will flow if I throttle down the others. It does not matter which loops I choose, I just can't get all 9 flowing when the circ starts. I thought I needed a bigger circ so I chose the 0010. That did not seem to work for me. Perhaps I should try a 008. I'm sure with more of a push I can get all nine to flow. Waddaya think??? It's definitely not airbound. I bled all the air and I have a great flow when bleeding the loop!!

GW

Merry Christmas

creatures are starting to stir in my house...

I can't understand why the bigger pump won't move water; that makes no sense at all. Is it that it's not moving water, or the water it is moving isn't hot? Did you do the "swoosh" test (Shut down a ball valve on the circ slowly and listen for water velocity)?

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Tony_23

Simple : )

The Wilo you have is a 21. It's shutoff head is 21 ft. The 0010 has a shutoff of about 12 ft. You need a 009, 0011, or a 0013 to overcome the same or more head as the S-21 and give more flow at the same time. Or, you could go to a Wilo Star 30 or 32.

If you've been a good boy, maybe Santa Mark Hunt will send you a Wilo curve chart

Mitch_5

Two questions.

first how did the home owner chose this great contractor was he the lowest bid.

psi as in the post above should not matter as long as you have enough altitude to fill the system.

Are your radiant loops reverse return and is your piping be enough for the load. also did you try disconnecting the individual loops and checking them for obstructions.

can you post a diagram of your piping.

Mitch S.

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scrook_2

I know I have no flow with the 0010 because I have flow meters installed on the manifold. With the Wilo, I have flow, just not enough. With the 0010, the meters don't move. I'm perplexed myself. I'll submit pics of the flow meters.

kevin coppinger_4

you have no...

flow because you need more head on those 2 loops...again seperate out those two extra long loops on their own circ....probably a 008/ or 009. use circ. shutoff flanges. that way you can easily change out if you need to. Is their any way you can determine loop lengths and therefore head,takes the guess work out...you're doing that now....kpc

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marc

Crossed loops??

Have you confirmed that the loops are not crossed? Or dead heading, this would give you NO flow through at least 2 loops. Just an idea, its happened a few times with me.
Marc

Weezbo

Hello.

are you using the pool house as a bypass? Does the pool house have remote headers run off a station,at the pool house?

with 1'1/4 feeding it, i would wonder the return temp from that circuit vs the return temp from the Wirsbo manifold...

sometimes it can take me hours looking at things trying to THINK what is it that i am looking at and what the neglected aspect or(Hidden Features) may be...

scrook_2

Thanks Kevin..........I maybe am not clearly stating the issue............I can choke down the flow in ALL the loops and have a BARELY noticeable flow thru them all. When I left the system like this, I got the call the next day that the house was cold. I went back and played with the manifold and got some response. The water was flowing as indicated by the flow meters but only 7 out of the 9 would flow enough where those rooms were getting heat. I am not having flow issues with two particular loops, its just any two loops.

scrook_2

No. The pool house is set up on its own loop all by itself with its own circ. I piped a bypass at the wirsbo 10 loop manifold with a ball valve to shut it down if I so desire.

Dave_4

Pump Head

I'm not an expert, but rule of thumb calculations puts your pump head at 15 feet. The 0010 can't pump that (like Tony says) which is why your getting no flow using it.