Buderus vs. Triangle Tube

Wayco Wayne_2

to size the boiler to the heat loss of the house. Especially with mod con boilers. Large water volume may slow down initial response time when system is cold on start up, but big deal. Once the system is up to temp, any extra capacity at the boiler will cause short cycling which is counter productive to energy savings. (think car mileage, city driving stop and go vs. highway mpg.) I always size as close to the heat load calc as I can, and get spectacular results on the gas bill. WW

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oldhousenut

Buderus vs. Triangle Tube

All- Value your opinion here. I have: 2500 ft 1914 colonial, 3 stories, recent gut job w/ new insulation, vapor barrier. My heat loss is about 75,000 btu/hr. I have 13 CI rads in the house, baseboard in new kitchen and converted attic. Demo'd the old gas CI beast in the basement and all steel pipes. Will be running pex to all rads and homerunning to new manifolds in bsmnt. Will have 6 rads on one mnfld(zone 1), 7 rads on another mnfld(zone 2), attic(zone3), kitchen(zone 4). The rads in zone 1 produce about 67,000 btus for heat loss of 23,000 and the rads in zone 2 produce about 62,000 btus for heat loss of 25,000.

Question- do I go with:

Buderus G124X w/ Logamatic Control

or

Triangle Tube Prestige 110

Ross_7

Triangle Tube

Old House,
I would go with a TT. I am very happy with my Prestige, so far. I installed it this past summer, and this is my first winter with it. It modulates very nicely, and the gas usage has been minimal. Also, it has a stainless steel heat exchanger, compared to aluminum for the Buderus. Not a big fan. I'm sure that there are some folks here on the Wall, that have had good luck with the Buderus. I'm just a little biased, because of my TT. Good luck!
Ross

MIke_Jonas

Buderus vs Ross

The G124X is a cast iron boiler. Very durable, best in class as far as I'm concerned, especially with the Logamatic. Constant circ with the room sensor is great. I install them all the time for gravity conversions/cast iron radiators.

The Buderus GB124 has the alum heat exchanger. These are the only two boiler models I sell and install.

Everybody has their own favorites. These are just mine. Make sure you find an installer that has some experience with whatever brand he is installing. The install is just as critical, probably more critical than the brand.

oldhousenut

Spicoli- I know this is a CI vs MC issue but I figured the Buderus w/ Logamatic will get a lot of the same performance. Been told by Triangle that because of the ci in the loops the Prestige may not condense. Do you see the mix of the old ci rads and new convectors(but on independent zones) as a problem when it comes to water temp, controls, etc? We will be home running everything to manifolds. Do you see a need for any special near boiler piping- bypass, mixing valves, etc? Thanks..

Ross_7

Spicoli

Spicoli,
Thanks, I missed that..but the GB142 is the aluminum mod/con. Looks like I misread the text & you mis-typed it.
:-) Peace & Merry Christmas

tim smith

Buderus vs Triangle

We like both mfr, but the Triangle has been very good to us, no failures, stainless and vertical low pressure drop heat exchanger. All good traits. Go w/ the Triangle and you won't be dissapointed. Tim

Wayco Wayne_2

If you have old cast iron rads

and the original system was gravity, then the CI rads are oversized and perfect to take advantage of a mod con boiler. I had one job where the customer saved 50% on his heating bill when his old cast iron boiler was replaced by a properly sized mod con boiler. When the CI rads are oversized you can get by with lower water temps and score a higher efficiency with a mod con. I am also a big fan of TT. Very few problems, very reasonable price. WW

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John McArthur_2

We have several of each installed in various projects. Apples to oranges but both are great products. I have used the TT on several radiation jobs and have had good results.

We have about 12 G124's on one project and have not had a single service call in over 3 years. Venting options and initial price are other things to consider.

Good luck with your decision and Merry Christmas.

oldhousenut

I've been told this as well. Thing is I have 2 zones that will be new convectors(about 15% of the house) and I'm concerned that they will drive the total system water temp way up and lose my efficiency. Does anyone recommend any specific near boiler piping arrangements- bypass, etc. Thoughts?

Ross_7

Modulation

The advantage is that even on high temperature applications, you still have the advantage of load match modulation. Which is still ahead of the game when you are just comparing a standard On/off burner operation even with Outdoor Reset. Even if your system is looking for 20 degree temp. differential let's say 160-180F, the boiler is going to burning at minimum fire. Only using as much gas as needed instead of full bore. AFUE is very deceiving.
Ross

Wayco Wayne_2

What Ross sez

is true, but also, I would size my convectors for 150 degree water at design. That way you sill be in the condensing range most of the curve. You could also go nuts and go larger, but my preference is 150. WW

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john p_2

hydronic unit heater control

Got two nesbit unit heaters off a job in perfect condition. Installed a zone just for the garage where they'll be used. I understand and wired a zone valve to my taco zone control panel as well as the stat but how do I control the fan. I'm thinking I'd use an aquastat but not sure which one and how to wire it in.

oldhousenut

Venting

Anyone have an opinion on venting the CI boiler. I've read that a draft chimney vent steals a lot of efficiency and will introduce condensate into the chimney- but the Buderus G124X(chinmey) shows 84.6 afue and the GA124(wall) shows 85.0 afue. Makes no sense to me. Anyone have ideas??

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Regardless of manufacturer, I would use a condensing/modulating boiler. (The Triange Tube Presitige is such a boiler.) With your added insulation and extremely generous radition sizing compared to heat loss, a mod-con will trive via very low season long temperatures.

Since you've removed the piping, NOW is the time to HIGHLY consider installing thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) on ALL radiators. TRVs turn each and every radiator (or room) into their own semi-independent zone. Regardless of the setting of the TRVs, the mod-con will see ONLY a single load--not the varying number of loads seen if you zone with circulators or on-off zone valves. No additional wiring and no* wall thermostats. *A single wall thermostat is sometimes used as a "master", but is not required.

With TRVs you'll need only a single pair of plain-Jane manifolds--no need for fancy balancing valves on the manifolds as the TRVs will take care of the balance automatically. Please be aware that with your insulation/weatherization, piping changes and conversion of the attic, that system balance will be an utter wildcard. While on that note, it is FAR best if you size the radiation for the attic so that it's similarly oversized compared to the existing radiators--otherwise you may well need a two-temp system (higher temp for the attic) that not only adds cost and complexity, but will reduce the efficiency of any mod-con.

With TRVs, you're almost certain to need no more than 2 circulators and it's quite possible to use only one circulator. With its relatively low head loss in the heat exchanger, the Triange Prestige could be especially well-suited for a single circulator system. Nearly all mod-cons can operate a system via a single circulator, but you do have to pay careful attention to the mathematics of head loss.

escaseadjug1793177

Buderus provides two options for the G124x. A chimney vent that has an electronically controlled draft damper and a direct vent, which is an upgrade/option. I have the draft damper and it works well. The difference between the GA and G is that the GA has a sealed combustion chamber and can be placed in a closet/closed area.

oldhousenut

Wayne- Can you explain what you mean here? How do you set a target temp? Also, I thought condensing only happens under 140 deg. I'm pretty confused..

Wayco Wayne_2

When you size your radiators

you size them for the coldest day you will see in your region. Say that your coldest day design temp is 10 degrees. If you size your radiators to be able to handle the heat loss of it's room at 10 degrees outside temp with only 150 degree water then all of the days that are above 10 degrees the convectors won't need water that hot and will run mostly on water 140 and below where condensing takes place. Some folks size their rads for 140 degrees and even lower to ensure condensing back at their mod con boiler. In my region we seldom reach design temps and when we do, not for long, so I size the rads so the boiler will condense most of the time and can still handle the design temp days that we get once in a while. Most of the time we are well above design temps.

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oldhousenut

J Mac- Met with an installer today and he said that because of the large water volume of the rads I'll need more BTUs in the boiler. Is this right? Also, how much of a difference is cost for a TT job vs the G124 and how do differentiate. I'm not seeing a lot of cost difference for materials. Is labor higher for TT? Thanks..

oldhousenut

Tim- Hope you don't mind me asking but what is the typical ballpark cost to install a Prestige with 3-4 zones, basic config w/ no indirect dhw?

Rudnae

The real question is...

Do you trust your installer? Do you have confidence in his/her abilities? Do you feel they are giving you a "good price"? We try no to talk about pricing on this site as it can vary drastically from region to region. Also, you may feel that your system is typical but trust me every system is different, there are always different snags that can occur on a job site that will vary the cost. My advice is ask the tech for some references and see what they have to say. I would also advise against going with the low bidder, its just common sense. Remember that all these guys mean well but the final decision lies with you, if you don't have confidence in the material or the installer, go with someone else.

Dennis Bellanti_2

John;

Use a strap-on aquastat that makes on temp rise. Wire the hot leg going to the fan through the aquastat. Mount the aquastat near the unit heater on the supply pipe. When the zone valve opens the aquastat will see the hot water arrive, close the switch and send power to the fan.

Dan C._4

GB142

Why not use Buderus GB142? You are comparing apples to oranges with the g124

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brian_46

apples & oranges again

The TT is a great boiler for old steam radiators, just completed a house last week. The Buderus is also great but none condensing unless you go to the GB then you have primary/secondary piping. Price will vary on what you want to achieve