How close can CI rad be to back of Fridge?

D107

Have a nice old ARCO CI 4-tube 25"H, 20 section 53 EDR rad that I'd hate to part with. Space it occupies now is just where the back of the refrigerator will be. Really is no other location for the rad to be in the new kitchen configuration. Before I go to ULTRA fin under basement ceiling--and I won't install a toe kick unit-- I wondered if we could keep the rad where it is and just give about 4" clearance from the back of fridge. I know it's not ideal for emitting heat but that's not a big concern since emitters in house are twice the heat loss. Would it interfere with refrigeration?

The only other possible location is a few inches on side of fridge, and same question applies.

Thanks,

David

Brad White

Why

would you abuse your refrigerator so, David. What did it ever do to you?

Refrigerators need cooler air and in a way help heat your house as a heat pump would. Not predictably, but they help.

You would shorten the life of your refrigerator, run it many more hours than it otherwise would and your milk would curdle every night. You would drink ice cream, not eat it.

Need I say more...

D107

well that answers that

thanks Brad. One of the remodelers had recommended putting it on the fridge's side, but now that's out. And if I do put Ultra Fin below, I'll make sure to keep it away from the refrigerator. Kitchen's only 130 sq ft; currently rad is less than three ft away, so I will take care with the heat on this.
Interesting about the unit's 'heating' capabilities. Probably not calc'ed in a heat loss or gain, but good to know.

Thanks,

David

Brad White

There is a CI radiator

right next to my Susan's oven/range, so sometimes the oven contributes to the heating system I suppose. Happens whenever she bakes and that is a lot, lately... just another thought.

As for the ultra-fin, maybe you want to put a piece of carpet pad under the refrigerator? Would help insulate for both heat and sound.

D107

carpet idea

that's very helpful. Your answer seems to indicate that radiant installers don't ordinarily avoid heating under the fridge, since the unit might be moved somwhere else in the future, and obviously a loop or two of pex under the unit is not giving off nearly as much heat as a big old CI rad. Of course I understand that radiant loops are usually avoided under floor cabinets, which only makes sense.

Thanks,

David

Al Roethlisberger

Indeed...


I don't know if the results would be that dramatic.... although I suppose they could! =P

Given that many refrigerators use the rear to directly radiate their heat from the compressor, or at least vent hot air from bottom mounted heat exchangers... I'm thinking that putting a heating supply of any kind near those components is going to dramatically reduce the refrigerator's efficiency.

Al

Eugene Silberstein 3

Big Mistake

This would be as big mistake and here's why:

Domestic refrigerators are designed to operate within a 70 to 75 degree space. Anything above or below this range will have an effect on system operation. A surrounding temperature less than 70 degrees will make the system too effiicent, while a surrounding temperature above 70 degrees will result in reduced system efficency and effectiveness. The latter is the issue at hand, so we will address that one here.

Since the appliance operates with a fixed bore metering device, the low side pressure will be directly affected by the high side pressure. Under normal operating conditions, the refrigerant will condense at about 105 degrees, which equates to a pressure of about 133 psig. The refrigerant will boil at a temperature of about -15 degrees to provide a freezer compartment of 0 degrees and a refrigerator compartment of about 38 degrees.

Now, with the heat source located in close proximity to the condenser coil on the refrigerator, the condenser saturation pressure (high side pressure) can esily increase to about 170 psig, which is about a 30% increase in high side pressure. This will cause the low side pressure to rise and, as a direct result, take the evaporator temperature along with it.

This will most likely stop your freezer from freezing and your refrigerator from refrigerating.

Along the same lines, many people, with varying degrees of success, place a second refrigerator in the garage. This unit works relatively well in the summer, but fails to operate in the winter. The reason for this is the opposite of your situation. Here, the system becomes too efficient, the pressures and temperatures are too low and the system, to use the technical term, "freaks out".

Have fun!

D107

Thanks Eugene, Al. But any special instructions for radiant

staple-up or ultra fin, since I'm probably going to have to go that way? Is a protective carpet underneath fridge good enough?

Thanks,

David

PS Eugene your 'Residential Construction Academy HVAC' has been very helpful to my gradual but growing understanding of the field.

Al Corelli_2

Radiant under fridge.

We NEVER put tubing under the fridge area. NEVER.

I had a kegerator in my office. In the winter, the unit would barely keep the interior below 47 degrees. In the summer with the radiant floor off? 33 degrees.

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Eugene Silberstein 3

Thanks David

Thanks for your very kind words. Keep up the good work!