GAS BILL $$$$$$$

hot_rod

If so there may be plenty of potential to upgrade the building shell. Money spent on insulation, weatherstripping, window upgrades,etc is the best first step to take.

A blower door test would help pin down problem areas. After all the "leaks" are addressed it's time to consider equipment upgrades.

Only with an accurate heat load calc could we determine the amount of fuel it SHOULD take to warm the building.

A load calc and blower door test before and after any building upgrades would be the best way to size replacement equipment.

hot rod

john_181

I just got my gas bill for one of my buildings today - OUCH

It is for 605.00!!!!! I used 564 MCF last month to heat a 5000 sq. ft. building. Is this high? It is an old boiler (70+ years) It is 432,000 btu's. But I am only running 2 of the 5 burners. Would increasing or decreasing the number of burners change my gas bill that much? just running 2 burners the building gets up to temp and cycles.....

Please advise - also, what is the highest gas bill anyone has received?

Ross_7

Hot water?

If this is a hot water system it's time to make an investment & install a new mod/con boiler & invest in some more insulation. Good Luck.
Ross

john_181

YES- I is hot water. I just "tuned up" the system - thanks To Brad White. There is insulation on all the pipes. First of all the circ. pump was installed backwards (prior owner) fixed now but the gas bill is one hell of a shock. I plan on updating the system next year.

Brad White

Not sure if

I can take association with your retrofit that as a compliment, John...




I suspect you are burning less gas and having greater comfort than before and the gas cost is as much a function of your building as your very over-sized system. Think of this year as a baseline for what the system can be in coming years.

As we discussed, the boiler is heating a fraction of what it used to in terms of the building area.

hot_rod

a 70 year old boiler in a 70 year old building??

If so there may be plenty of potential to upgrade the building shell. Money spent on insulation, weatherstripping, window upgrades,etc is the best first step to take.

A blower door test would help pin down problem areas. After all the "leaks" are addressed it's time to consider equipment upgrades.

Only with an accurate heat load calc could we determine the amount of fuel it SHOULD take to warm the building.

A load calc and blower door test before and after any building upgrades would be the best way to size replacement equipment.

hot rod

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Not knowing your climate, the fuel consumption does seem very high for 5,000 sq.ft. but considering the size/age of the boiler and the fact that you're only firing 2 of 5 burners makes me think "reasonable".

If you followed Brad's advice your current system is likely functioning near its' peak efficiency. Thus his suggestion of establishing a baseline efficiency from which to improve. You'll likely find that as the weather gets colder the system operates with better efficiency. You cannot judge the effectiveness of improvements by just a month or two.

As Hot Rod said, the first order of improvement is the shell itself. Get your insulation/weatherization in the best shape reasonably possible given the construction/age/use of the building.

Bob Forand

Question about burners

Is it possible that byusing only 2 of the 5 burners that the boiler is using more fuel than necessary to heat the water contnents of the system ? And I once asked the question sometime back about "shutting off a burner" and if I remember correctly the general response was to not shut off more than one and be sure it is for a middle section of the boiler. Could these burners that are shut off be towards the rear of the block ? Just a couple of thoughts..

john_181

UPDATE

Well the boiler is 70 +/- years old and the building is 135 years old. The building is made of brick and terra-cotta. There is NO air gap in the walls. Ther is however insulation in the attic.

Does it make more or less sense to fire 2 of the 5 burners of give it full fire. what saves more gas and or money.

BRAD WHITE: The system is running good so far. I just have to replace a few bad rad valves this weekend to help the system out. I have 5 valves not working out of 27. So I guess the building is not heating as fast as I would like. When the system is running...The return line is about the same temp as the supply after 3 cycles of the circ pump.

john_181

Also, I am located in Pittsburgh PA

Chas_2

605 for 5000 sq.ft

I would not complain about that bill one bit espically for a 5000 sq.ft building that down right cheap espically when you conderser that your using a 70 year old boiler that's pretty dam good peace and good luckc lammy

joel_19

bill

In Mass that would be over 1000$ I see houses here half that size hit 600-700$

GW

gas

you're saying your gas prices are just $1.07 per therm? That's a deal; don't complain too much!

I bet you're wasting fuel with running only two burners; there's likely too much mass for the reduced firing capacity.

If you have old steel mains... lots of water/high mass, you need an outdoor reset control pronto; ditch the on-off thermostat you have now. Install a tekmar and also go with an indoor sensor.

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john_181

On one side I am running 1 burner that is on the left side. On the other side I am running the middle burner. Does it really make a noticible difference running ALL the burners or just a few? And why does it matter which burner to use? I notice the gas runs longer with 2 burners running and it cycles 4 times before the therm. shuts it off. If I run all the burners it runs less time but it only cycles 2 times then the therm shuts it off. I just thought If I run less gas I would have less waste up the stack. PLEASE ADVISE

Gordy

Stressing the HX

When you are not using all the burners you are not heating the heat exchanger evenly, this could eventually cause enough stress to crack the casting. But on the old ones they are heavy duty can probably take more stress.

Gordy

Illinois

Here in Illinois NG is 1.11 per therm after Tax title and License. My last bill was 108.00 for 2300 sf, useage 120.78 therms. This includes DHW, BBQ, and a gas light. 987 degreee days, bill cycle 32 days. 82% efficient boiler thats over 100% over sized. T-stat set at 72*.

For what you have I would not complain. Bottom line you need to upgrade your system if you want to reap any ROI.

Gordy