Recent steam w/ indirect pics

Ted Robinson

Mostly I watch & learn . . .
Is the theory of the dropped hearer steam connections to make the legs as long as the overhead height permits?
I have an aged steam boiler and it is good to know these things against that future some-day replacement.
Also, is this the same Smith boiler that could be switched out, oil - to - gas?

Norm Harvey

This is Wednesdays job 12/19. it took from 7:00 AM till 12:30 AM with myself and one helper. All the connections are iron, the only copper is domestic piping.

There are still a couple touch up things that need to be done, like cementing the oil line, replace the solid tankless plate with one with a hole for an aquastat for a high limit hot water call, and I also will re-work the domestic copper to make things a bit more,... level. (hey at 12:30 AM I just wanted hot water on for the customers morning shower.


There were NO main vents om the system so we had to cut and thread the old pipes in place to accommodate the location.

The indirect is complete with temperature gauges, 1 inch piping with a by pass, then 3/4 to and from the boiler with a wye strainer. It also uses a thermostatic mixing valve at the tank to store water above 140 and has a temperature gauge to make setting the mix a snap.

Unknown

A thing of beauty

and a joy to behold.

Noel

Saggs

Looks good Norm, does the supply for the indirect comme off hi then returns down low in the back? Is this the normal way of doing this? I'm looking at doing an indirect similar to yours and just wondering if this is the preferred piping method. Thx Merry Christmas.

Steamhead (in transit)

On the Smith 8 series

the boiler sections have dedicated tappings for an indirect hookup. That's where Norm tied it in.

Norm, the only thing I'd change is to replace that Taco wet-rotor circ (007?) with a 3-piece bronze one. The water in a steam boiler is real hard on wet-rotor circs, and they don't last in that application. Even a bronze wet-rotor circ will fail rather quickly there. Sure, a B&G 100 or Taco 110 costs more, especially in bronze, but it's the right part for that job.

Otherwise, nice job!

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Unknown

I never had that problem

I always used iron pumps, as long as they were piped EXACTLY like this job. The strainer catches the lumps, and the bypass keeps the pump from cavitating.

It's no different than an iron body boiler feed pump, in my view. The piping that is in the picture protects the pump from damage.

I wouldn't change a thing.

Noel

scrook_2

Now THAT'S a header! Nice!

scrook_2

Now THAT'S a header! Nice!

Steamhead (in transit)

I've had to replace a few of them

it's probably a combination of very fine grit that the strainer doesn't catch, and the acidity of the water that affects wet-rotor circs. Never had to replace or rebuild a bronze 3-piece yet in this application- all you have to do is oil them.

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Jim_83

Are the risers off the boiler 3 inch? Why did you use larger pipe on the risers?

Very nice job.

Norm Harvey

Thanks everyone for the comments.

The risers do increase out of the boiler from 2 to 3 inch, then back to 2 inch for the horizontal and dropped portion of the header.

I increase to 3 inch to help slow the exit velocity and make for drier steam even entering the dropped portion of the header.

Ideally I would have liked to do the entire dropped header in three inch like this one (see attached) but the threading machine I used has a maximum capacity of 2 inch. Since this was a leaking emergency replacement it is easier for me to buy 2 pre cut 3 inch nipples rather than many specific pre cut 3 inch ones.

steve_38

equiptment

what i would like to know, is who will be doing the annual tune up every year on that equiptment... garantee within 2-3 yrs it will be pretty sooted up... another beckett another nightmare. the usuall. The plumbing is ok, but i'm not a fan of that choice of equiptment. I've been serviceing and installing oil fired systems for 12yrs and i would have to say about 70percent of becketts soot up and Riello burners not one. all i'm saying is riello is the way to go and that's speaking from experience

Norm Harvey

One man show here.

This customer chose not to take the risk with an unproven Megasteam and a history of Burnham leaks. I refuse to install Weil McClain.

I chose Beckett over Riello in this application due to the very moist environment. I can replace a beckett burner motor and 007 a lot easier when that sump pump fails than a Riello motor.

I dont have many problems with Becketts that I set up. I set them with a little more excess air than usual and they run fine. My first choise is a Riello, followed by Carlin EZ series, and that followed closely by Beckett.

steve_38

misunderstood

i don't have any problems with setting up beckett burners either. i can set them up blind folded. what i'm saying is beckett can't over come the obsticales a riello can. also ask any supply house how many beckett motors get sent back to them as aposed to riello motors almost none on riello motors. i'm sorry but that's not a good enough excuse to choose the beckett because of moist conditions mmmmm NO. riello is built like a tank it doesn't break, and it's the most efficient oil burner out there... the only boiler i've ever seen the becket run great with is the System 2000

Norm Harvey

Well, maybe someday I'll smarten up. Hey it's my second day in the business and my first install. Cut me some slack.

steve_38

lol ok

i'll allow you to get away with it this time but no excuses next time.... lol no i'm only kidding... it is nice after an install to step back and look at your work. keep doing what your doing

Jim_83

Norm, What don't you like about the Weil Mclain steam boilers?

Norm Harvey

I have a bad taste in my mouth about Weil mcClain from their leaking and plug prone 68 series boilers as well as their support of the franceformer brand ignitors that I feel are inferior products.

I just choose not to support a company like that. They may be a good company that has gone through some growing pains, but I would rather not affix my name to a product that has burner me before. I also do not use burnhams with the exception of the new megasteam for many of the same reasons.

Al Gregory

Ive been using alot of Smith boilers too the past cpl seasons. I use the Carlin with them. Had to many problems with the Becketts in them.
Great looking work.

Jim_83

Norm, Is the Burnham MegaSteam your preferred steam boiler? I think it comes with a Beckett burner and from reading the posts it sounds like the Beckett burner is not the best. Sounds like there are always tradeoffs when picking a steam system.

What would be your ideal steam system (boiler, burner and near bolier piping)?

Norm Harvey

I give my customers opitions. With the Megasteams 3 pass efficiency comes a company with a history of leaking boilers. I let the customer take that gamble.

Same thing with burners. I prefer Riello, but in my area customers with Riello burners have a very limited number of service contractor options as most of the area service companies do not repair Riello burners.

One of the reasons I like Riello apart from superior combustion and reliability is the fact that it marrys the customer.


Personally, I would take a gamble in my own house with a megasteam (if I had steam) but I let the customer make that decision.

Norm Harvey

I agree with you there Al. I'd prefer a Carlin EZ series over an AFG anyday. The truth of the matter is this one was ordered with a Carlin but got delivered with a Beckett. I havent had any real problems with the Smith/Beckett combo so I didnt see any reason to make a fuss.

bruhl

Great job Norm. Looks outstanding and I'll bet you have one happy customer. You and your helper must have been exhausted when you ended for the night. Especially since it was "your first install". :-)
Which brand of indirect did you chose? and, do you find much difference between them?
Thanks
bruhl

Norm Harvey

I use Super Store because it has 1 inch soonections. I also like how the domestic connections are both on the side of the unit. It makes it nice for tight spaces. So far I havent had any problems with super store. I used to use a Crown Megqastore with good results but Crown still manufactures their indirects with 3/4 connections.

And my helper was sick the next day and didnt get out of bed untill the evening. So much for the baby boomer generation,... slackers.

Norm Harvey

Yep, thats it Ted. Gives us more height for the water to seperate from the steam.

The long horizontals are to make swing joints so that when the vertical piping heats up and expands they can absorb some of the stress, preventing the boiler sections from seperating.


I like to think of a dropped header as an "S" on a race track. A racecar cant drive at top speeds when it has to corner so much, and the same for steam. At least thats how I imagine it in my head.

bovide_4

Are flow checks necessary for the indirect?

Unknown

That is

one heavy duty header , Norm . Very , very nice . And the indirect piping ? Textbook . Beautiful .

And that is dedication to stick it out to 12:30 AM to get 'er running . I hope the customer appreciated the extreme effort .

Norm Harvey

In my opinion, No, Because the DHW piping is trapped by gravity.

There is also a thermostatic mixing valve on the tank so in the event that tank does overheat for any reason, the thermostatic valve will send out a safe temperature water. In this case we are storing the tank at 140, and the thermostatic mixing valve is set to deliver 120.

David Sutton_6

Very Nice !!!!

Those are some fine looking steamers Norm !!! Keep up the good work ....David