Lochinvar vs Carrier - new boiler

Jeff Lawrence_25

With Mike T.

Also, Carrier doesn't make boilers, they buy them and re-label them.

Have a heat loss done on the house and review it yourself. Look at what was entered, door & window size, insulation in walls, floors and attics. See if what is in the report jives with what you know is there.

Depending on the radiation (Radiant, hot water baseboard, panel radiators) you may be able to put in a modulating/condensing boiler, know here as a mod/con. These have outdoor reset available that will modulate the water temps with the outside air temps.

Good luck.

Kevin Doll

new boiler - Lochinvar vs Carrier

We are going to have a new gas hot water boiler installed to replace our old one. One company is recommending a Carrier Dunkirk 198,000 BTU while the other company is recommending a Lochinvar CBN215 215,000 BTU for $900 more. I would prefer to save the money obviously - but didn't know if the Lochinvar is that much better - and thus I should ask them to sharpen their pencil a little more? If both units are equal - then I'll go with the Carrier.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Is this a HUGE home? If not is it nearly all windows, built like a barn or north of the Arctic circle?

Otherwise, both of those boilers are SEVERELY oversized and you'll pay and pay and pay for the sloppiness and ignorance of the installer.

[Deleted User]

Big Differences..

From what I could find on the Dunkirk online, it's a standard cast iron non modulating non condensing boiler.

The use of the Knight should result in a minimum of a 30 % reduction in fuel consumption.

If you saw a 10% reduction with the Dunkirk, I'd be suprised. IT (Lochy) is WORTH the cost differential. I also agree with the other guys. DOuble check your heat loss requirements, and don't size the boiler to the emmiters in place. Size the boiler to the load, and if the emmiters ARE oversized, the boiler can operate at a lower temperature, saving you even more moola...all while keeping you extremely comfortable.

ME

Joannie_15

But

That isn't the model number for a Knight that the customer was offered. It's the Copper Fin. BIG difference between those two Lochinvar models! So, the cost difference that the customer is getting is not between a cast iron conventional and a Knight mod-con.

bobbyg_2

I would agree with getting a heat loss to properly size the boiler. The Lochinvar CBN is the "Solution" model which is also around 83% efficient. It isn't a modulating/condensing boiler.

[Deleted User]

I sit corrected...

See what happens when you speed read...

Some people call me a modcon snob. So be it. If I can't install a mod con, I don't want to waste my time, or their money, or our precious resources.

If the customer want to reduce their fuel bills and carbon foot prints by 30%, they'll buck up and do the right thing.

ME

Steverino

But it is...

a 2 stage boiler with an optional indoor/oudoor reset. The next size down is 180MBH.

Kevin Doll

Ok - the house is a 4,300 sq foot home built in 1930 with 72 windows (they don't build them like that anymore). The current boiler is 245,000 btu weil mcclain - both firms sized it based on measuring all the radiators. So it sounds like going with the Loch is better than the Carrier - but I need to get them to price a Mod vs just the copper fin? assuming the cost will go up again? Getting a divorce and wife is keeping the house - want her to do the right thing - but will be her call more than mine.

Joannie_15

Couldn't Agree More

Insulate (properly) and get an efficiency boiler. Spend that money and then enjoy the savings!

Boilerpro_5

Sizing based on radiators for Hot Water Boilers is Wrong!

The output of the boiler needs to match the heat loss not the radiation. The difference can be huge and so can the real life boiler efficiency and life. An example; My own home had 900EDR.....EDR (equivalent direct radiation) is a measure of radiator capacity. That puts it peak capacity around 135,000 btu/hr to 166,500 btu/hr. A heat load calculation reveals that the leat loss is only 48,000 btu/hr. If you were to size the boiler to the radiation, the boiler would be 3 times or more larger than necessary. BTW I am heating a 1906 2800 sq ft two story frame with 700 sq ft of windows.

Boilerpro

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Boilerpro_5

Another way to state the difference Mark.....

that has a much greater impact is that if a potential client choses a typical chimney vent boiler instead of a modcon, they will use 50% more fuel. The impact of this language is much greater than just a 30% savings of using a modcon.

Boilerpro

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Kevin Doll

thanks - do I have the guys selling the boiler do this heat loss calculation or an indep 3rd party? Any idea on cost? A previous owner removed 6-7 radiators from upstairs and replaced them with a coil in the airhandler in the attic - I have always wondered if we had way too much boiler since they made that change. We currently vent up the chimney - they said we could vent through the side of the house - but that is the front of the house - and 18" of concrete and 3" of stone veneer - really don't want to look at that when I come home. can these mod/com vent through the chimney or not?