Another one bites the dust.

Dave Stroman

Ross, Yes, I do install a lot of the Trinity boilers. I have had good luck with them.

Mark E., I agree with you about the copper boilers. But what I have seen on baseboard jobs is the flue pipe failing first. I thought it was from the short cycling and not giving the boiler or flue pipe a chance to heat up. But perhaps you are right about the the way the air makes it condense. Do you think this is true for cast iron boiler? I stopped using copper boilers a long time ago but I still be a lot of cast iron on the budget jobs. With all the different mod/con boilers out there, it makes you wonder which ones will stand the test of time the best.

Dave Stroman, Denver

Dave Stroman

This is not a commentary on copper boilers. I have seen this happen to cast iron boiler too, although they are more resistant to this. This copper boiler was less than 10 years old. Hard to believe how bad things can get before they stop working. Connected to a high mass cast iron radiator system with no boiler return protection. This home owner wanted to know if it could just be "cleaned".

Dave Stroman, Denver

Weezbo

partial differential reset would have saved it from its untimely

fate.

Jim Franklin

What? Cleaned?
Each picture looks worse than the last.
bruhl

Mars_3

Yep had one of those just two months ago

Dave i had one of those just two months ago. ten year old copper fin boiler, hacked into old cast iron radiator system. poor thing never had a chance. Didn't take any pictures probably should have. Its just saddening to see some of the installation practices out there. And hows a home owner to now if its right or wrong. Just pisses me of some time's

mikebegood

Ya we can do that

Not to defend the installing contractor. but I think in my area there are alot of plumbers who just are really naive about hydronics. So offen I see mistakes that if you dont really know what you are looking at seem ok. THen you see a boiler that looks like that one. I have a 1.44 MBTU copper fin 2 that is in a apartment complex that is piped straight through. Every time the system goes from chilled water to hot water the boiler condenses like bear. This sytem has about 1200' of three inch copper under ground and two buildings worth of apartments. Lots of thermal mass to overcome. I know the company that installed it and they have a decent reputation. I think like alot of mechanicle companies they think its like a water heater with no tank and just throw a new boiler at it. The owner is really choking over the bid to fix the situation. They said the old cast iron boiler lasted thirty years piped the same way.

Dave Stroman

I know what you mean, it makes me sick too. What is worse is that these people really think they know what they are doing. I replaced a cast iron boiler the other day. The burners were so rotten that there was large holes in them. There was so much gas pouring into the combustion chamber that the flame was rolling out the front and melting the plastic emblem on the the top of the door. The HO had just had it "serviced". Ya, they jumped the flame roll out switch so they would have heat.

Here is one where the CO detectors on the second floor of the house were going off. When I got to the house, the fire dept was already there airing out the place. Again, connected to a cast iron system with no boiler return protection. Plus, it was vented into an unlined brick chimney. Like you said, it just did not have a chance. We installed a hew con/mod boiler and vented it up the chimney.

Dave Stroman, Denver

Timco

I have replaced a few that looked like that. Very few really know what 'primary / secondary' means.

Tim

BTW, do you still have that rad? I'm still interested if you do...

T

Dave Stroman

Yep, I still have it. Want to get it when you come out in April?

Dave Stroman, Denver

Timco

That would be great! Appreciate it!

Tim

fatty

the damage came from condensation?

Joannie_15

Is That a Laars?

Hi, Dave. Is that a Laars unit? It sort of looks like one of our Mighty Therm LoNOx 175-400 units. Just curious, because I didn't think we sold any of those in to Colorado.

Poor thing....didn't stand a chance with all that condensation.

Joannie

Unknown

Absolutely,

nothing against Laars, but I can just imagine what this`ll look like!
And this guy is considering zoning options.
BTW- Notice the hand bypass , its closed!

Dave

Joannie_15

Bypass

Good grief.

:-)

Joannie

joel_19

CAUTION!!

In the back ground of the boiler room appears to be a Humidex or similar unit that is designed to pull air OUT of the basement in order to dry it out. It will also quite nicely backdraft your atmospheric boiler and water heater.If that's what it is i would advise H.O. to remove it.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

I hear ya Joannie & Joel,

but just try talking fixing up this current boiler before considering zoning and that`s more $$$, so they wisk you out the door!
This was installed a few years back, by the gas company,,,go figure!

Dave

Ross_7

NTI Trinity

Dave,

Are you going to retrofit this system with an NTI Trinity?
I thought that you had said in previous posts, that the Trinity is your mod/con of choice? TIA
Ross

fatty

geez! all i've seen on here of Laars are bad install jobs. doesnt anyone have a pic of a good minitherm job?

Timco

Here's a good install...it runs very well.

Tim

fatty

thank you, i feel much better already. do you have the finished job? no big deal if you don't want to dig for it
thanks

Joannie_15

I know....

I know, Dave. I don't understand it, but we see it, as I'm sure other manufacturers do.

Joannie

[Deleted User]

Bad news regarding P/S and low mass systems...

Contrary to what we have been taught and what we have been teaching, I'm finding that we ae seeing many of these low mass systems ( atmospheric CFT boilers, coupled with HWBBR convective systems) that are self destructing in a relatively short time frame (less than 10 years). Even those that were set up to AVOID these issues (P/S piping and pumping systems)

Why is that you ask? Because, the nature of these atmosphericly vented BANG BANG appliances is such that excess cooling air is being drawn into the combustion process and causing the appliance to condense anyway, despite out efforts to control it. It is the basic technolgy that has major flaws in it.

How to fix, you ask? Get rid of these inefficient atmospheric appliances, and install a properly sized, properly programmed peice of equipment that is not subjected to these operating conditions. I won't name names, or point fingers at any one individual in particular, because I'm just as guilty (previously) as the next guy, but the use of atmospheric appliances is a waste of not only money for the equipment, but of our precious natural resources as well.

Time to wake up America. If it's natural gas or LP, it SHOULD be sealed combustion modulating condensing technology. Otherwise, you're just throwing good money after bad. And we ALL have photographic proof...

THe oil industry is lagging behind the Euro's on this technolgy, but it will make its debut in due time, if not already here now.

Sorry to spoil your day...

The soap box is now free.

NEXT!

ME