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Wood boiler-EK1

For Hot Rod's "Pumping away with wood" book.

Comments

  • Bob Forand
    Bob Forand Member Posts: 305
    Wood boilers and System 2000

    Hello system 2000 installers, I need your help. I have a contractor who installed a wood boiler. The wood boiler is connected to the System 2000 via a flat plate HX. I got called because the original heating contractor installed a T009 pump in series with the T007 that is on the boiler. He then cut a tee into the piping and created a loop with the T009 and the T007 in series. The heating system does not work becuase there is now no reason for the water to flow out through the zone valves. The correction as I see it is to cut a couple of tees into the return with a ball valve between them, put the original 90's back in place, so that the boiler now becomes part of the loop. I cannot just move the system pump because of the DHW HX and it's location to the system pump. BUT now the problem as I see it, System 2000 has the feature that the last zone that calls stays open to relieve the boiler of it's heat. In this pumping arrangement I am proposing, the last zone called will never stop overheating. I wonder if anyone may know of a way to control the Primary pump on and off through the system manager ? Is there a way to by-pass the system manager ? Has anyone ever been successful in hooking a wood boiler to a system 2000 boiler ? Is there anyway to turn on/off the primary pump with the thermostat calls ? Is there a way to "turn off the last zone called feature "? Any ideas or discussion would be great. Thanks..
  • Bob Forand
    Bob Forand Member Posts: 305
    Wood boilers and System 2000

    Hello system 2000 installers, I need your help. I have a contractor who installed a wood boiler to a System 2000 via flat plate HX. The original heating contractor cut the 90 degree elbow at the manifold for the zone valves above the system pump, and installed a tee. He then added a T009 and piped that through the HX. He just gave the T009( which will become a T0011) line voltage so that it is constant circ. He though that he was creating a P/S loop.

    Now the system does not work because there is no reason for water to flow to the zones. You know that path of least resistence thing... Now my challenge is to fix the issue. How do I connect a wood boiler to a System 2000 EK1 Boiler ? Well the stumbling blocks are:

    A) We want the primary pump to be on constant circ so that the boiler stays hot from the wood boiler, but the feature where the last zone that called stays open to relieve the boiler of it's heat puts a big block into constant circ.

    (B)The fact that the DHW plate exchanger is piped from above the system pump, back into the return. This means that I cannot change the location of the system pump as there would be no hot water is the summer.

    So does anyone have any suggestions ? Is there a way to by-pass the zone manager ? The last zone called feature ? Has anyone successfully connected a EK1 to a wood boiler ? Is there a way to wire a "toggle" switch, so that during winter months when there is a call for heat, the call would power the primary pump instead of the burner ? This would require a control to override should the wood boiler stop heating ? I just don't know.. Any ideas or discussion would be appreciated.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,019
    It begs for a primary secondary

    piping. I don't think you ever want to flow the wood fired boiler through the EK to keep it warm? It turns from a boiler into a cooling tower. i suppose a vent damper would help, but I'd rather see the two boilers be piped to work independently

    A nice piping would be to have both boilers and the DHW plate HX as secondaries. Either or boiler could feed the loop and the HX when it called.

    What ever you pipe be sure the EK never flows through the wood boiler or you'll risk some higher, not lower, oil consumption.

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Bob Forand
    Bob Forand Member Posts: 305
    Hot Rod

    Hi, I agree, but I don't know how to pipe a P/S on this system with the variables of the System 2000 with those variables ? I have thought about "backfeeding" the wood boiler should the flame go out, but I don't know how to pipe this. The fact that the last zone stays open also means that the system 2000 pump stays on until the heat has dissipated. If the primary loop is always hot because of constant circ, then the open zone/system pump will always pull that heat into the loop. That is where I am stuck. Am I missing something ??
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,019
    I guess I'm not following

    you want the wood boiler to keep the EK block hot, for some reason, but you also want to run the last zone to pull the temperature down?

    Just think of the wood boiler HX as an extension of the wood boiler. it sounds like it is in there to separate an open system wood furnace from a closed loop building system?

    Then, as I recall the EK uses a DHW storage tank with a plate HX to generate DHW.

    Well that also is just an indirect tank with an external HX. if you pipe everything P/S it becomes another "load" to either boiler that is running. ideally all winter the wood boiler would supply ALL DHW via that "device".

    A copy of Dan's Pumping Away or any other with P/S topics would help you design and size everything.

    hot rod
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Norm Harvey
    Norm Harvey Member Posts: 684


    I too am a little confused on how you want this to operate.

    I am assuming you want to be able to manually switch between wood and the EK.

    I've done some quick sketches on how it may work using the digital manager as the main controll, and using the 110v burner circut as manually switching to to run through the wood boiler limits to the wood boilers side of the plate exchanger circulator. But its late. I'll see what I come up with in my sleep and check back in the morning


    Edit: Yes I think I have a piping and wiring sketch that would work. Ill see if I cant get it scanned in tomorrow morning
    "We see the world as WE are, not as IT is, because it is the "I" behind the EYE that does the seeing"
  • Norm Harvey
    Norm Harvey Member Posts: 684


    Got it!

    Had to buy a new scanner but here it is. This is EK's documentation. its alot better than my sketches
    "We see the world as WE are, not as IT is, because it is the "I" behind the EYE that does the seeing"
  • Bob Forand
    Bob Forand Member Posts: 305
    Thanks Norm

    Thank you Norm, just what I was looking for I think, I will print it off tomorrow to know for sure.

    Hot Rod - That is not how I want it to operate, that is how the system manager operates the boiler. The last zone called stays open, the system circ stays on, until the heat from the block is distributed out. When it falls below a certain temp the circ then shuts off. The problem with P/S is that with the system pump pulling the water from the Primary, the last zone that calls would never shut off causing the zone to overheat. That is why I can't pipe P/S.

    However, I did think of another way ( if Norm hadn't saved me), jump the modine zv open, allowing the water to constant circ through that coil. Wire the fan (line voltage) to a transformer, connected to t-stat. The t-stat would only control the fan on the modine. When he is ready for summer use, he would only have to take out the jumper, or even better, wire it to a switch, and he would only have to flip the switch.


    Thanks for your replies, I knew this was the place...
This discussion has been closed.