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Installing Main vents where there are none now..

Brad White
Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
in THE MAIN WALL
Mmmmm. New one on me. I would presume venting ports but as you said, it is your parent's house and if YOU cannot check, neither can I :)
"If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



-Ernie White, my Dad

Comments

  • harold campbell2
    harold campbell2 Member Posts: 16
    Installing main vents where there are none now

    There are no vents on my mains now. The mains are accessible in the basement, but then get buried behind walls and ceilings, before they branch off.
    One main is a 2" pipe that takes about 45 minutes for the air to evacuate; the others only about 10 minutes.
    Is it worth it to vent mains, where there they can only be installed perhaps 10 feet before they tee off? Otherwise, Id be chopping through walls and ceilings.
    thanks; this site is great and Ive learned so much here.
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    Venting

    While not ideal, (your inability to vent near and back from the ends), venting out that air is still beneficial. Imagine burning 45 minutes of fuel for bupkes?

    The 10-minute mains could also benefit. As you know, it is not a race, but all should reach the finish line at the same time. Sort of like what passes for competitive sports in public schools these days. Everyone gets a trophy! :)
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • harold campbell2
    harold campbell2 Member Posts: 16
    tapping into mains

    thanks Brad. Can it be done through tapping into the mains, drilling for the installation of the vent or does piping and elbows have to be replaced? Where are you located?
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    Not sure how handy you are

    The ideal is to cut in a tee dedicated to the purpose, but often you will find the unused (now capped) old vent location. (Tired of spitting, the vent was removed and the stem capped, defeating the purpose.)

    Drilling and tapping in piping is not recommended. If that is the way, it needs to be welded. (No telling the quality of the pipe and a wall tap has reduced strength with not a lot of grip. Fittings or thread-o-lets are appropriate but welding near wood structure is not recommended in the least.)

    I am in Boston but am not a contractor in case that was on your mind.
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Matt_67
    Matt_67 Member Posts: 305


    Hello Brad,
    I found several plugs on the branch lines coming off the one-pipe main. I thought they were traps or cleanouts. They aren't really within 1 or 2 feet of the riser [they are further away] from the riser than that.
    Do you think they could be old vents that were plugged? I guess it would be helpful if I knew that they all were verticle, but they are in my parents home so I can't check just now.
    I hadn't thought that back in the coal days someone took vents out leaving plugs.
    Thanks Brad.
    bruhl
  • Matt_67
    Matt_67 Member Posts: 305


    Brad, I wish I could just run down cellar and look, but I can't. I'll do that Friday. It is helpful to know that they are probably old vent locations.
    That means that if I can get the plugs out, they can become new vent locations.
    I promise I won't try to use them as cleanouts!!!
    bruhl
  • Big Al
    Big Al Member Posts: 35
    A possible alternative

    I know the pros here will chastise me for this. You could also find the last radiator on the main and install a Heat-Timer Varivalve vent on it. It vents almost as fast as a Gorton #2. By venting that radiator, the whole main will get vented.

    At my house, the last radiator on the main is really too small for the space it's in. In an attempt to get the room a little warmer, I wanted it to heat up first, so I put the Varivalve on it. It worked, and as an unexpected benefit, the whole system heats up faster.

    My $.02

    Al
  • harold campbell2
    harold campbell2 Member Posts: 16
    its my largest radiator

    Ive got a Gorton D (huge venting hole)on that rad. that takes 45 mins. to vent. Its right next to my head in the bedroom and I hear the venting early in the a.m.; so its got a huge vent already...still takes almost 45 minutes
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    I was thinking the same thing...

    increasing the venting capacity of the furthest radiator. A Gorton D is the same internally as a Gorton #1 so hard to beat that.

    I have yet to see a Gorton #2 on a radiator but I have some years left in me... :)

    As you say, if the main still takes that amount of time... it either needs venting or a high colonic....
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Phil_17
    Phil_17 Member Posts: 178
    Alternate vent locations

    Though it may not be the best, there are plenty of installations where the vents are placed at the end of the dry returns which are typically near the boiler, and may also be at a lower elevation such that you have more headroom to work with. My house came with all three mains vented in this manner and this setup works well. It also makes it easy to check the operation of the vents and measure the time it takes the mains to fill - everything is in the same place. I can try to find some pictures if you think it would help.
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    Not a bad idea, Phil

    In fact many systems are just this way although you may wind up "steaming" your return line by default. Of course one would always insulate such a line, right? :)

    I can see that (usually one-inch) return line as an over-sized venting line and as you said, the pitch buys you height.
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Phil_17
    Phil_17 Member Posts: 178
    A picture...

    This is what two of my vents look like. You can see how much lower the returns are than the mains that are heading out, so there is lot's of headroom for the fittings (and those Gorton #2's are not small either).

    The mains have since been insulated, but the returns are still naked :- I don't mind a little heat down in the basement, and the cost-benefit trade off of insulating them didn't make it for me
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    On that system

    there really was no other place to put the vents. Nice work.

    But as far as drilling and tapping- we do it all the time and have never had a problem. The secret is to drill and tap the fitting, not the pipe itself. This way the metal is thicker and you get more threads.

    Jeff, I'll bet those capped take-offs were probably for radiators that have been removed. You really do want all your venting capacity after the last radiator takeoff, so do whatever you must to make that happen. If that means opening a wall, just put an access hatch there when the vent is installed.

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  • Big Al
    Big Al Member Posts: 35


    The Heat-Timer Varivalves are a lot bigger than a Gorton D. They are about as fast as a Gorton 2, so if you put a couple of them on the last couple of radiators, it might be enough.

    My only problem with them so far is that they spit just a little if they are wide open. Once I closed them off slightly, the problem went away.
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