Burnham PVG-5 Venting issue

TK03

If you don't have the 4' clearance to the window may want to convert the PVG to an SCG which has 1' distance to windows

chris_93

Burnham pvg5 venting issue

Hi guys,
I have a new customer with a concern over the venting for their boiler. The boiler a burnham pvg-5 has about a 4' of heat fab pipe running horizontally along the house. I believe they did this because there is a window above the outside wall penetration.

The manual only show venting with exterior pipe if it is running vertically.

My customer is concerned about their 4 young kids getting burned on the pipe while playning in the yard.

What are your thoughts??

Thanks,
Mike

Unknown

Venting Issue

There is no reference to running vent pipe horizontally outside of a structure. The concern here is the possibility of condensate freezing in the horizontal piping even though there seems to be adequate pitch on it. We do approve vertical "snorkel" piping to keep the discharge well above points of concern such as snow accumulation, sidewalks, etc. My assumption is that there is a horizontal or vertical drain tee installed inside this basement to collect any condensation that is trying to return to the boiler from the uphill pitch of the pipe? It is also my assumption that this may have been done to allow for the four feet of distance needed to the window when installing a "Power Vented" appliance versus the one foot of clearance when using a "Direct Vent" appliance. I have already run this by engineering this morning and it is also their decision that this is NOT an acceptable venting practice.

As far as the concern of children touching the pipe and getting burned, there is certainly a chance of this happening depending on the distances of pipe in the basement before the wall termination. The flue gasses on this boiler at the breech connection are somewhat below 400°F and depending on the venting distances, can be hot enough to be of a concern regarding someone touching them. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Technical Development

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

chris_93

burnham pvg

Glenn,
just the guy I was hoping to respond to my questions. Thanks for the follow up.

Yes there is a condensate drain tee, and there is about 15' of pipe across the basement ceiling. And yes there is a window above the wall termination. I have put several of these in, and I only saw the "snorkel" type venting in your manual and therefore I had a concern.

The 90 coming out of the wall termination gets pretty darn hot. There have been no concerns over people getting burned? I didn't check it with my infared thermometer.

This whole thing came about when the landscaper says he got a minor burn to his leg when doing yard work, then they called me.

Obviously they will have to get the installer to correct it, or pay me to fix, if a snorkel vent suites the job here;
Has anyone had any problems w/ the exposed pipe for a snorkel vent getting too warm??

I appreciate your help.
Mike

Unknown

Mike

There most certainly is a chance of the pipe being hot enough to be of a concern regarding burning. as I originally posted, this is dependant upon distances of pipe and fittings in the basement. I edited my last post to help clarify that point. I have been on jobs that had several elbows and greater amounts of pipe inside the building where the pipe was not so hot outside. Again, this is dependant upon the piping and lengths of running time. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Technical Development

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

joel_19

Glenn

thanx for getting right back to this guy,on a public forum wish other companies would do the same.... Way to go

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chris_93

Glenn Thanks

Hi Glenn,
Thanks for the quick response. Obvoiusly this vent wasn't planned out too well. Customers want me to take care of it.
I'm a little concerned because the manual doesn't have any minimum pipe lenghts or elbows required if the vent pipe should extend past the termination screen. ie: snorkel vent. If there is a min. to keep the "exposed" pipe from getting to a certain temp., how would I determine that? Maybe this is something to add in future manuals?..
Anyway I appreciate your dedication to helping us contractors out.
Thanks,
Mike

Unknown

Mike

As I stated in the other posts, the temperature of the flue gasses leaving the boiler as compared to their temperature at the termination can vary greatly. There are too many parameters to take into effect in putting data like that in printed form. The ambient temperature of the basement, the way it is routed, the comparitive size of the boiler and the length of the running cycle all have an effect on that.

Not that temperature isn't important, but I'll be honest in saying that the usual concerns with sidewall venting are how to stay above minimums in reference to grade and how to have vapor discharging without it being an annoyance visually. There are the other considerations such as overhangs, alcoves and gas and electric meters that come into play also.

If the concern here is temperature of the pipe there are a couple of options. One would be to terminate to a place where noone can touch it or vertically to the roof. This can be done by routing the stainless pipe through an existing chimney, or building a chase on the outside of the house to enclose it. Another thing I have seen done, particularly in city applications where sidewalks are in close proximity is to construct a stainless steel wire cage around the termination or pipe to keep anyone from touching it. Unfortunately, what you are dealing with is something that goes along with power and direct vented appliances and there sometimes is no easy answer.


Glenn Stanton

Manager of Technical Development

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.